Get Started

Rick West is the Chairman and Co-Founder of Field Agent, a global provider of products that help brands win at retail. Prior to starting Field Agent, Rick worked 16 years with Procter & Gamble in various assignments in the United States, Hong Kong and Bangkok, Thailand. Since leaving P&G, he has been a start-up Entrepreneur for over 20 years. Rick has co-founded multiple start-ups, including the Northstar Partnering Group, CORE4 Research, JOYN and most recently Field Agent. He is also a member of the global Endeavor Entrepreneur network.

 

In this episode, Jason and Marc discuss:

  • Leverage core values to shape organizational culture and authentic leadership
  • Overcome humble beginnings through strategic positioning and work ethic
  • Practice patient leadership that fosters team input and holistic coaching
  • Address challenges with core values while maintaining authority
  • Celebrate employee departures and align roles with individual strength

Key Takeaways:

  • Gratitude emerges as a foundational pillar of success, highlighting how a supportive network bolsters resilience and fosters progress during an entrepreneurial journey.
  • A narrative of humble beginnings showcases the power of bootstrapping, networking, and securing key opportunities to transform vision into credibility and growth.
  • Leadership excellence is demonstrated through patient, thoughtful approaches that prioritize team input, redirect challenges with grace, and uphold organizational identity without compromising standards.
  • The importance of core values shines through as a compass for addressing challenges, fostering cultural realignment, and ensuring actions reflect integrity over personal grievances.
  • Growth is celebrated not just through achievements but also by embracing employee transitions, promoting strengths over hierarchies, and committing to leadership marked by authenticity and continuous learning.

“As a leader, I think we just have to learn how to truly connect to that person, to truly understand how they're wired so that we can lead them appropriately. Because if I try to take the same approach for everybody, I’m going to fail miserably.”

 - Marc Reifenrath

Connect with Marc Reifenrath:

 

Connect with Steve and Jason:

 

Listen to the podcast here:


Marc Reifenrath- A Better Leader Every Day

Hello and welcome everybody to this episode of The Insight interviews. This is your host, Jason Abel, and I'm honored to have our guest today. Listen to a little bit about our guest. His name is Marc Reifenrath and Marc is the CEO and co-founder of Spinutech. Who the heck is Spinutech, you ask? Well, I'll tell you. Spinutech is a full-service digital agency with over 165 team members across the country. They develop lead generation strategy and sales for top brands that you've probably heard of, like, oh, I don't know, Pella Windows, Delta Denta, Panavision, with a whole host of others. Marc, welcome to the show, my friend.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's an honor.

Marc, we have an opening question that we've asked, I don't know, over 200 times, and it gets us facing in a certain direction. And I think you'll understand that once you hear that question, which is, as you and I engage one another we talked before we hit record, that there's all kinds of things that were going on before this call, and getting things settled, family to-do lists, just different things, and then, boom, we come here, and you're in one part of the country, I'm in another part of the country. But as we settle into this conversation, who or what comes to mind to you that you're particularly grateful for?

Without a doubt, my wife. Just through life and this, you know, business journey, business startup journey, she has been such a solid rock and could easily have gotten frustrated in many moments that she was supportive or just listened or has given me sage advice when I didn't know I needed it. And so, she's definitely been that rock for me.


So good, so good. Let's get into who Marc is. So, I know you've had your company for over 24 years now, which you know, every year that goes by like, that's a long time. There's all kinds of statistics with startups where they only last so long. Profitability versus non profitability. But if you've got 165 team members spread out throughout the country, you've been in business for well over 20 years now, how in the world did all that happen? Take us back to pre-2000 Marc. Give us a little bit of history about yourself
.
Yeah. So, I was born and raised in small town, Iowa. I graduated with a class of 75 from a town of 2500 people. I still live out in the country on six acres, and the closest town is like 1800 people. So, we’re small-town people, but you know, my parents were educators. My dad eventually became a superintendent of schools, and when I went to college, that was my junior year in 2000 and that's when we started the business was my junior year of college.

Okay.

And so prior to that, I had tons of very relatable experiences. You know, a bell man at the Holiday Inn, I was a DJ in college for weddings and so, not a lot of related experience. But I was a sales and Marketing major at the University of Northern Iowa, the dot com bubble is bursting, and I needed to create a way to make myself stand out in the job market. And so, we started doing some websites- myself and my two partners that we originally started the business with, and it just kind of blossomed from there. We joined the local chamber, which I had no idea what a chamber of commerce was, but I ran track at UNI and my coach's wife was working for the chamber, and I ran into her, and that's how we joined, and then we won the local hospital website because of the first chamber meeting we went to was like a new member welcome. I had to stand up there and give a 62nd elevator pitch of what we did, and what we did when we started was we built our own content management system, which, at the time was very unique. That's kind of a commodity these days, but we would simply say, we build websites that you can update on your own, and people would go, what does that mean? And so, we would showcase that to them and grow from there. So very simple. Our first office, one of my partners lived in the basement for an extra $100 cash on the side. There were no exit windows, it was all cement. He used cubicle walls for defining his little space, and I think our office rent was $150. It was literally an old exam room that had a little sink, which we thought was really cool. We had a fish tank, a couch and two computers. And so, you know, we where we were at, there weren't any of the incubators that had started yet. So, we literally bootstrapped all on our own. So that's the early days for sure.

Yeah, yeah. I'm picturing like, like the movie, The Social Network, like Zuckerberg and those guys, like, in the early, early days. It sounds like that's what Spinutech was in the late 90s or early 2000s. And then what happened? So, take us through that progression of, okay, you're in an exam room, you're feeling lucky that you have a sink, you won the hospital website deal, but then things started happening. You've got me interested here. So was there a particular break? Was there a particular thing that happened, where it went from, or was it the slow climb, like, how would you describe that?

You know, I would say, generally speaking, over the course of 24 years, we've done a good job of putting ourselves in position to be lucky. And I say that because some people have said, oh, man, you guys keep getting lucky, and I almost take offense to that. And I think what we have done is strategically put ourselves in the right spots and time and place to be lucky or built the right relationships that lead to luck. And so, I think what happened in those early days is we did absolutely bust our tails, working all hours of the day and night, nurturing relationships and the breaking point really was in 2003ish, we had been doing smaller projects, websites, 5000, 10,000 maybe $20,000 or $30,000 here and there, but then in 2003 we had two pivotal deals that came across the plate. And we said in our heads, in our office, if we get one of these, man, this is going to really turn things around. And so, one of those was HyVee, which is a grocery store chain in the Midwest, 400 plus locations, and they wanted to enter into the E commerce world. It took us a year. We started that conversation in 2002 and in 2003 I think it was in November that we closed that deal. And at the same time, in the background, we're talking to Firestone. It was only Firestone, not Bridgestone Firestone.

Yeah.

And so, we were just like, man, if we get one of these. And so HyVee popped and were like, yes, like, we did it! It really changed things. And then, like, 30 days later, Firestone is like, boom. And we're like, oh, okay.

Yeah, that's good news, bad news, right there.

Now what? Like, there's just three of us. Like, what are we doing? So that definitely flipped on, like, okay, we've got to start to do some things differently and mature. And so, it was good on so many levels, because now we had instant credibility in the market. And what's interesting, too, is our world was so small. We thought Cedar Falls Waterloo, Iowa, where we started, was the world, and then Des Moines enters the world, and it's like the map expands. And then you pick up a client in Louisiana, I think we got one there, and then Texas and you're like, oh man, we got a client in Louisiana and Texas, you know?

How cool is that? Sure.

As we said today, we got clients in all 50 states and 30 plus countries, which honestly is irrelevant, but that was a pivotal moment, because it gave ourselves confidence. So, we had gotten into bigger rooms, but I don't know that we believed we belonged there. And so here's maybe one of my life lessons from that is you probably don't ever belong in some of the rooms you get into, but if you get in there at that point, you gotta belong. And so having the confidence to be in the room. And what I learned too, even as recent as seven years ago, you get in with some of these big companies, and you have these self-doubts, like, can we actually deliver for a company this size? You get in and I remember having this thought, the way they were talking about things, and I had to pull it together, because I was like, oh my gosh, they don't have it together. We can crush it for them. And so, I've never been in a room now, in reflection, where we couldn't have brought value. But myself was telling me or questioning, can we? Should we? Do we believe that we should be here? And so, there's a simple sports saying, why not us, why not now?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I think a little bit of swagger. You got to be careful to not be arrogant, but a little bit of swagger, of, like a humble confidence. We do belong here. We can absolutely kill it for you, and we will do that for you. And I'm not saying that to be, again, overly confident, but I just have a high level of trust and faith in our team that we've built, and I know they're going to deliver for you. And so, once we got that confidence, it was like, boom, boom. Deals just started to happen more and more. And then, you know, like I said, we started as just web development and in 2006 I think we won Whole Foods, brought them into the E commerce world as well. Kind of a weird introduction from HyVee that we got to them, and then in the 2010 range, and shortly after, we tried to really work hard to evolve into a digital marketing agency. So, full service digital, and that took us a while to get that spun up the right way. We had some kind of failed paths we took, but 2012ish, we really kind of popped that bubble and got it going, and then through the mid-teens, we saw some pretty rapid growth and body count, or team member count and client type, and that was just an accelerant. 2015 through 2020 was afun ride, and that presents different challenges, of course, when you're growing fast.

Sure.

But you know to present, you know, yeah, we're coming up on 25 years, and that's crazy.


I bet. Well, when you start in college and 25 years goes by and you're still a young man, that part of it's pretty fun. There's a lot you said there that I'd like to go down maybe another level to. I mean, I wrote down the words as you were telling your story, humble yet confident, and then you said it. I'd like to touch on that. But then you also said something where, you know, hey, I feel like maybe at times, I didn't belong in the room that I'm in, but at the same time, yeah, of course I did. But the thing that caught my attention there is, man, I don't know if we have it together, but oh my gosh, I don't even know if they have it together. That is something that I have observed over and over and over again. The best looking companies without outside observation, the best leadership, when you start to dig in, they're a mess too. We're all a mess to some degree. I don't know, would you mind, I'd love to get your thoughts on just that piece of it for a while.

So yeah, I mean, tons of stories here. You know, some of these early clients we won that want us to bring into the E commerce world, you know, you're in that room and they’re like, man, if we got 30 orders a month. And you're like, 30? Like, that's all they want? I think they can do a lot more than that. Or hearing them talk about just their current process, or, you know, you ask a few questions, and the way they answer, you're kind of like, oh, boy, they don't know what I'm talking about.

Right.

So, then you have to flip to, okay, I can't make them look bad, because they're the CTO, the CMO, whatever, and we know that they're our key, the gatekeeper to the relationship. So, you know, Jason, I love what you said there. Let's maybe take that a little different direction. And so, you kind of have to, like, build them up, but then kind of get it back over here. And I think that's what I have seen the most, is people trying to act like they're at our level. And I don't mean that in like a like, we're so much better, but it's just like, we have SMEs that should know this better than them, but they, for whatever reason, feel like they have to be at that person's level. And they don’t. Like really, that's not their job, they just need to be, you know, like a lot of CMOS need to be a jack of all trades. Like, they need to understand a little bit of a lot to bring it all together, to make it work, and sometimes you see those seats try to over elevate their perceived knowledge to the team, because they think it'll look bad if they don't understand what we're talking about. So, lots of stories around that where people would talk about a very specific technical thing that we knew was inaccurate. There was a time we had a client with all their owners at the Googleplex, which is really cool, like, super fun to go to Google, let them spoil it for a few days. Educate you. And somebody from the client side got there, you know, we're in the back listening, and they say something, and we're like, oh, wait a second, that's not accurate at all, and it kind of impacts us. And then you're like, instantly, kind of like, how do we redirect and make that person not lose face, but not get the owners and the client thinking we're the ones doing something the wrong way, because somebody in that room was probably smart enough to know the right way? And so those are tricky. That's where your EQ comes into play, on how to kind of get everybody aligned. And you don't have to point fingers, and just kind of get the everybody on the boat running the same exact storm again.

So, I got to ask Marc, how did you get out of that tight spot?

You know that particular situation, I knew all the owners, 75 of them, very well. And so, there was just some individual conversations like, you know, I think what he meant to say was, you know, and it's an easy thing to get confused. And so that was that. And then you also run into these politics internally that sometimes they feel like they have to be better than you, or it's like a weird competition, even though we're their partner, you know? And so, I think EQ would be something I would point out here. The stronger you can build that muscle, the better, because it's like when
you're watching a movie, you're like, but they should just say this. Just say this right now. You're like, idiot, just say it.

Yep.

But that's EQ, where you have to read the table and the whole room and go, but I can't, because that's gonna drop this grenade and blow that up over there. And you've gotta really assess and go, okay, how can I do this? And another thing I love to say, as a leader, and in those situations, it's not about me. Like, don't make it about me. Sometimes it might be only me that is offended or feels like that's the wrong thing to do, and so, time is a really good equation to let that filter out and really see, is it just about me, or is it something that needs to be addressed on a larger level?

Yeah, that's so good. That's so good. It sounds like there are times when you say it's not about me, like you let the game come to you a little bit, as opposed to butt in, or try to look better, or something like that. I'm sensing that you're very good at that. So, with the growth that you all have had, and now you're in the biggest rooms around the country, and it sounds like around the world, you've had high growth. There's a lot of leadership that's happened over the last 24 years Marc, and I'm sure there's a lot of stuff that you've probably skinned your knees once or twice and gotten a lot right over the years. When it comes to leadership, I know enough with some of the information that you filled out for us ahead of time, like you've got some thoughts on that. So, when it comes to leaderships, most of the people that are listening, are in some leadership capacity. Are there certain tenants, certain philosophies, where you're like, yeah, gosh, if I were gonna write a book on leadership, boy, this would be, you know, one or two or three of the chapters?


Yeah, and a lot of this is, I'll relate it to, I like golf, if you can't tell. When I started playing golf out of college, you know, you want to hit it as far as you can, and just, it's a different approach. As I've gotten more wisdom in my golf game, you play the course and you let it come to you in the sense of, you know, you're not trying to overdo things. It's course management.

Yep.

And I think the same is true with leadership. I have learned to be more patient and quiet. So, if you're in your room with your leaders, we run on EOS, and so we have our weekly L10, and I am very intentional about not being the first to speak. Every once in a while, sure, if I feel like it's gonna save us time and, you know, whatever, but oftentimes I need to let our team share their opinions, because that's what they're there for. They're not there for me to just say what I want done and then to just take it as is and run forward. That's going to be wrong, more times than not, as opposed to letting them talk through it, and then I can strategically come in at the right time and shed my opinion that may validate or slightly change the direction, but not completely dictate the direction. And so, that patience of that is really critical. And then also just how to handle feedback, I think, is difficult. Most of us don't enjoy giving tough feedback, but I like the coaching mentality of, you know, I'm a big growth minded person, so our first core values, we get better every day. And part of that is, you know, we can lean into that core value when you're giving feedback of saying, you know, Jason, I want to share some feedback with you, and you know this is strictly coming from a place of I want to help you get better.

Sure.

And I want to remind you that this isn't about you as much as like fixing a problem or a technique. And so, another thing I say in that is like, I have given multiple times the team permission to give me feedback. You need to give those around you permission to give you feedback, and vice versa. And when we do that, we have this kind of social contract that I'm going to push you to be better, you're going to push me to get better.

Yeah.

In any sports team, this happens naturally and organically, but for whatever reason, it's become more taboo in the workplace, like, well, you're not my leader, you're not my whatever. But in a sports environment, anybody and everybody should and can be doing that. And so, giving feedback is as simple as you know, framing it up like that, and then saying, hey, in that meeting, I notice x, y, z. One, would you agree with that? And two, like, how can I help you with that?

Yeah.

So, instead of just being the one to provide the tough feedback, I need to also be willing to show up for them and help support them through that however I can. And so, do you want me to, you know, in the next meeting, afterwards, give you feedback, or do you want to dry run some stuff with me? How can I help? And so, you know, I hate the plate scraper problem people. They just want to scrape off their plate and give to somebody else. It’s easy to just give feedback and be like, all right. Peace out, I'm done.

See ya. Yep.

The best coaches are showing up in the background and the moments that nobody will ever know and nobody will ever see it or know about it. And every once while you hear those stories that come out and you're like, oh, man, what a pivotal moment. It was the moment that the Deacon Smith talked to the parent and knew that that was the conduit to fix the issue or the challenge that was ahead of him. Or sent the letter to Michael Jordan in the summer outlining what he needed to get better at, when he thought he was the best. And so, you know, being creative. The other thing I'd say is, like, you can't coach everybody the same way, so self-development plans for each individual, and also you understanding and learning, and this is something I think that's changed since COVID. We used to lead the work version of Jason, now I've got to lead the whole person.

Yes.

And so, I then have to be vulnerable. If I'm having a tough day, I have to tell you, like, hey, man, today's been tough. Like, kids sick, I had to take trash out before they went to school this morning, and I wasn't playing on it. It made me rush before this meeting. Whatever it is, you know? The dog puked on the carpet. I mean, those are real things that people like don't want to bring to the workplace. But, I think me being vulnerable at the same level as everybody else is super important, because now I've given you that permission to do that too, and sometimes, you know, life's gonna happen. Work's gonna happen when life should happen. It's all intertwined. And yeah, there's lots of phrases for that, but as a leader, I think we just have to learn how to truly connect that person, to truly understand how they're wired, so that we can lead them appropriately. Because if I try to take the same approach for everybody, I’m going to fail miserably. And back to the coaching, you're not going to win a lot of games that way.

Yeah, so I'm nodding my head, because I'm agreeing with everything that you just said, Marc, but let me push back, just for the sake of hearing how you respond. That thing about coaching the whole person right now, in this day and age, sometimes that's a little tricky, right? Like, there’s a navigation where, boy, hey, Marc, that's not work stuff. We're going to talk about work stuff, and that's it. I just I saw some headline about somebody banning, something about you don't need to respond after hours, or something like, you know what I'm saying? Like getting too close to that personal side of the person. Again, I don't agree with any of this, by the way, I just want to hear your response to kind of that day and age, those types of things that you're hearing about. I don't know how you navigate that with so many team members. Maybe not everybody thinks exactly the way that you do. So how do you navigate that?


Well, I think that this is where are you going to let society run your culture, in your organization or are you going to own who you are? And so, we don't apologize for who we are. We have high standards. We have high expectations of who we want to be on our team and who's going to be successful here. That's not for everybody, and we will never apologize for that. I think there's a lot of companies that are trying to meld to the masses. You're just never going to win that over. So, I think you just got to kind of own who you are, and that's the same as a leader. You know your strengths and your weaknesses, and you know when you're going to mess up. Own your mistakes, own your strengths and go with it. I just don't think that we can worry about trying to please articles, so to speak. And you know, sometimes people ask, like, could we do this? And sometimes you just have to say, listen, we're in a service business. We got to be here five days a week. We got to be here. We have to be responsive. Sometimes we're going to have to work at night. Like, that's our industry. We can't change that. Clients are going to be tough, as they should. They're sending us a big check every month. They’re going to have high expectations. So, how do we counter balance that? We are a little bit rare for the agency space where we really do strive for a 40-hour work week. We have alarms that go off if you record more than 43 hours in the system. If you work more than that, but don't put in the system, we can't know, so that's the silent Way. And if you haven't taken PTO in 90 days, another alarm goes off. So, we're trying to protect the true work life balance. We don't want people working at night, but sometimes they're going to have to, and we try to do things to, again, counterbalance that. If somebody's gone through an extreme push of that, we might give them a spot bonus or a gift card, or a half day off, or, you know, something to just try to recognize it and not just make them continue to grind at that level. That's where you just run into burnout. And I think everybody has a tipping point of what's their most optimal time worked in a week with the highest output and quality of output?

Yep.

And that's different for everybody. You know, 40 hours is not an exact number. Some people it might only be 36, and some people might be 50.

Yep.

And so, you know, again, managing everybody differently and understanding that. And so, I guess my simple answer, though, is just own who you are. I just don't have a tolerance for trying to please the masses. We're not trying to please the masses. We're trying to make sure the team that we have, the roster we have, can go on the field and win.

Do you have any examples over the years where, because all of that sounds great, has that ever gone awry for you? Has there been any particular challenges where you're like, yeah, we are owning who we are, but, man, there are times where that was a particular challenge. Or maybe not, you know? I don't know. Maybe you've grown in a way that that hasn't been.

I would answer that this way. I think that there's been more pressure on things these last four years. Society has changed in the US. The work mentality has shifted, and we need to make sure that we don't fall into that, because that will cause many other problems. And the other thing I would say is we are basically fully remote at this point. And so, that's a different challenge on leadership, on culture, on all of it. Just corporate structure of being in 27 states. I think we peaked at 33. Like, that brings in other challenges. And so, you know, those are when I think you have to really, really lean into those core values and make sure that you're living them, you're leaning on them and all that. So, yeah.

Well, I think this is a, this is a continuation question of that. I kno, one of your tenants is, you know, make tough decisions sooner than later and do what you need to do around that. I know every single listener of ours that is in a leadership position has a tough decision in front of them, because that's just the nature of leadership, right? And some are tougher than others. And Marc, I've watched leaders’ kind of ignore some of the things, and I don't know, I've never seen a problem just get better on its own. It typically grows hair on it and mold and all kinds of yucky stuff, and then it's worse. And so, I don't know, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on that tenant.
So, I love a couple of simple strategies of you should use your core values to solve the problem, you know? Attack the problem, not the person. Put those two things together, and you got a really simple equation. So, whatever your core values, it really doesn't matter, as long as you own them and they’re lived, they're not aspirational. It doesn't matter what they are, but if you believe in them, and that's who you guys are, own it and don't make it aspirational, and then lead to those. And when something's wrong, you can ask the team the question. What's one of our core values is this misaligned with okay? And that could be with one of our clients too. It could be internal. It could be with a person. It could be the team. There's lots of ways that this happens, and then you start to go, oh man. Then it might click, and then you start to go to solving of how you get realigned to that and that is how you truly live those things. This conversation of core values and culture has been over baked or over hyped for the wrong ways, and so now I think so many companies feel like they have, to say that they care about it, they have to say that they have it, but sometimes what they really care about is just the bottom line. And what I have found, this is my experience is when you have a well-balanced machine from culture and core values, the rest takes care of itself.

Yeah.

But that means you are making the hard decisions. You said it well, and I say this to our team, you know, when you know there's a problem, it definitely doesn't get better with time. It does grow and get harder to fix. And when you do fix it, you're like, almost every single time, oh, man, I should have done that a month ago, six months ago, whatever. You're never like, I don't know if I should have done that today. I don’t know that I've had that. And this is true with like a team member, where they're in the zone of, we are gonna maybe try to fix it, but maybe we've tried to fix it for a long time, and so I'll challenge you to say, like, okay, if you guys, you put them on a pip again, like, do you truly think they're going to get better? Probably not. Well, then what are we doing? Like, let’s just be done today. Like, that's a favorite to both of us. Like, they're probably miserable too. Let's just make this better for both of us. And you can tell them that. Like, listen, we don't think you're happy. We're not happy. Like, let's just make this better and both be in a better place because of it. And another thing I'd say there is, like, if you do PIPs, the goal of the PIP is to make them better and a successful team member, not to just exit them. Because that's why you're doing PIPs. It’s an improvement plan. Make it an improvement. Like, you need to do 100 free throws after every practice, and I need you to get in better shape, so, I'm gonna have you do five more suicides after practice. I know that sucks. I know that that's gonna be painful, but that's how you're gonna be a valuable member of this team. Do you want to do that or not?

Yeah, that's so good. I've seen the PIP more often than not, used as like you said, an exit strategy, just to say that we did XYZ, you know, beforehand. And I think what you're saying is, no, no, no, no, we're not going to do that. We're going to have the tough conversation, the crucial conversation, and then we're gonna move on. So, yeah, very good.

There's so many CYA moves in there, and like, I get sometimes you have to do that, but don't make that the habit, or the trained muscle response. You just got to do what's best. Like, again, go back to the roster. Professional sports teams do this really well. Like, is every person on your team adding value?

Yep. And if they're not, we're gonna have to make a move. We're gonna have to make some tough decisions. And to your point, make them fast and move on. And yeah, it resonates with me what you said about it's probably best for both parties. That person, once they get released, even though that might not feel good and there might be some weird things happening there, then they can go move on and go find a spot where they can contribute and be happy and be successful. So, yeah.

Can I dig in on this little? Because this annoys me in culture right now.

Yeah, please.

We should be celebrating when people leave the organization. Like, yes, you're going to have a few people that were bad eggs, and you just need to be done and get rid of that cancer in the organization, but by and far, most people that we have had time here with and leave, they're great humans. They did great work while they're here, and they're going to do great work when they move on. I want to be their biggest fan. I want to be their biggest supporter. Yes, sometimes there can be some hard feelings when that departure occurs, but generally speaking, there's no reason we can't be humans and root for each other and not be like, well, they're not on our team anymore. And, you know, and then you talk bad about them once they leave. Like, you know, most people are built for one to two, maybe three stages of growth with the company. And that's a hard thing to realize when you grow.

Yeah.

And so sometimes you hang on to people that you shouldn't because they were the original team members. Now we have a couple of people, several, that have been through everything, and they have adapted phenomenally. Our first team member, we still have our first team member. We still have four of our first team members. They've adapted like you wouldn't believe. It breaks all odds, and there's been growth pains for them in those stretches. But Eric Bonser, team member number one. To this day, when I talk to him, I will often say, Eric, I'm just so proud of you. To watch you grow and evolve has been amazing.

Yeah.

It’s been super awesome. And he was just a designer when he started, and now he's leading a large team and pushing us and helping people. He makes people grow on his team. He holds them to high standards. There are so many really positive things about what he does. We sent him to a local leadership class that was over like six months, and that guy, he didn't just show up and take it, like, he'd come back and you'd see his notes and he'd say, okay, so I learned this and I want to try this with the team. Okay, that's great. And it truly made him a better leader. And so, you know, I would also say, like we mentioned this before, this bothers me about society too. People think they have to be a leader to get a pay raise, and they're not a leader, and they get into a leadership role, and then they're miserable. And then there's pressure on them for how they're performing. So, own the leader that you are. Meaning you don't have to be a people leader. You can be a quiet leader in the background, you can be a vocal leader without being labeled as a leader, but you don't have to truly be leading people. And here's the way I've approached it. We have non people leaders that are handsomely paid, because we know their value to the organization. So, don't be afraid to lock yourself in these confines of you can only make X at this level unless you lead people.

Right.

Like sales teams. A sales leader typically isn't a great salesperson, right?

That's right. Your best salesperson is typically not a very good leader either, right? They're separate skills. How often do we see the individual contributor raised to a leadership position because of the dynamic like exactly what you're talking about. Not the right thing to do.

It's the special team skill set. Like, that best salesperson is disorganized and annoys the crap out of you in so many ways, but you want to go have a beer with them, because they're going to be a good time. You know you're going to have a great conversation and have some laughs, but that's why they're in sales, right? So let them do that.

Oh, man, Marc, such good stuff. It's amazing to me that we've already spoken for over a half an hour. I've got so many more questions for you, but I'm gonna hold myself back. Is there a topic that I have not brought up that has not come to the table yet where you're like, you know what? This is one thing that I really wish your listeners would hear. Maybe we've covered those things. But I just want to make sure that there's nothing left unsaid as we kind of head towards home during our conversation today.

Yeah, no this is this is fun. Obviously, I get pretty passionate about this stuff, but yeah, you know, I think that leadership, I think it's okay to recognize that it's just harder right now, post COVID, post, whatever. Although there's been a lot of change last few years, I think it's okay to just look yourself in the mirror and go, it's okay that you don't know everything. It is just harder. We're getting challenged and pushed as leaders in different ways than we used to, and that pushes us all into a defensive corner at times, which can make you fall on bad habits. Don't fall for that trap. Be open and adaptive, talk to other leaders, listen to podcasts like this, be a sponge of resources right now. Because on some level, all leaders are trying to figure it out, and that's always been true over time. And so, don't feel like you have to know it all. Just have an attitude of, I'm gonna make myself a better leader every day, every week, every month, every year.

Yeah, so good. That recognition that it is harder right now than maybe it was before, that's huge. A lot of things that we do with our clients is just give yourself permission to just soak that in and understand that. Don't wallow in it, but just say it for what it is, and then we can move forward. So yeah, thank you for that. Marc, I have a feeling people are going to want to reach out to you as a result of this conversation. What’s the best way for people to find you?

Sure. So, I post a lot of these thoughts on LinkedIn, so you can just follow me. Guess you'll have my name spelled out in the comments or something. But on LinkedIn, there's only one of me to my knowledge and or you can email me.

Perfect. I like what you said prerecording when I asked you about the pronunciation of your name, you're like, hey, it's just like it's spelled, which is amazing. So yes, we'll put links to your LinkedIn and your email in the show notes, so all of that will be there.

Perfect.

Marc, congratulations on the success and growth of Spinutech. Thank you for spending time with us today. We don't take that lightly. And yeah, your thoughts on leadership are just so, so darn good, my friend, so thank you for your thoughts today, and I hope our crowds are our paths cross again soon.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.


                                                                                                             ---

Thanks for reading. If you got any value at all from this episode, a little nugget all the way up to some big, huge insight, please do us a solid by subscribing, recommending, rating, and reviewing us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or Google. That stuff matters to us, and it allows us to continue interviewing more awesome people.



Important Links
, , , , ,

Lead Magnet

  • First cool thing
  • Second cool thing
  • Third cool thing
Download