207 Jason and Steve - Maximizing Impact

Uncover the unexpected truth about achieving organizational flow and freedom! Dive into a transformative conversation that unveils the surprising keys to leveraging team members' strengths for growth. What's the real deal behind emotional intelligence, avoiding bottlenecks, and achieving the perfect balance? This eye-opening discussion will leave you with actionable insights to enhance your leadership and drive organizational efficiency. 

In this episode, Jason and Steve discuss:

• Leveraging Others' Gifted Zones
• Importance of Opposite Exploitation
• Flow State Freedom
• Leveraging Freedom in Leadership
• The Concept of Flow & The Banks of Flow

Key Takeaways:

• Unleash your team members' strengths to drive exponential growth in your organization
• Attain a state of flow in your workplace to maximize productivity and creativity
• Master leadership skills to eliminate bottlenecks and propel your business forward
• Cultivate emotional intelligence to elevate your business leadership and foster a positive work environment
• Find the perfect balance between leveraging resources and granting freedom for optimal organizational efficiency and growth

 “It's not you winning at the expense of your people. It's everybody winning for the gain of the organization.”

 - Jason Abell

Connect with Jason and Steve:

• LinkedIn: Jason or Steve
• Website Rewire, Inc.: Transformed Thinking
• Email: grow@rewireinc.com
  
  

Listen to the podcast here:

Jason and Steve- Maximizing Impact

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our LinkedIn live event. We're live, Jason. We're on LinkedIn. I think that's why they call it a LinkedIn live event. What do you think?

We are indeed. Are we experts yet? I don't know. We've been doing this a while. Glad to be live.

So good to be live. Malcolm Gladwell said that we needed 10,000 hours before we become experts.

Well, then, no, we're not experts, but we're here and we're doing it.

We're novices. So, we wanted to welcome you. I'm Steve Scanlon, CEO of Rewire, and Jason is the president. And that's only because we drew straws on titles or whatever. And so, we run Rewire over here and we're excited you're here. This is also a podcast episode for us. For those of you listening to the Insight Interviews, we kind of double up on that. And so, we're going to post this there and I think we're going to have a really amazing talk today. Jason, I'm super excited about the topic. It impacts you and know. So, I think we're excited. So, look, let's dive in. We're usually trying to jam a lot into this, and I think the dialogue that we're going to have about some of the steps that we think we can take to be better leaders is going to be fantastic. But these usually start with the idea that you and I tell each other stories, right? We know enough about coaching, and we're certified enough not to go and tell each other names, and we always are protecting the innocent with people. But you told me a story the other day, and I just was like, that is the makings of a great LinkedIn live. So, share that with us, if you don't mind.

Here we go. Yeah. And it turned into our title today, just about maximizing the impact of leaders. And it's something that we both have seen over time as we've dealt with our clients over the last ten years. But client was telling me a story the other day, and the way that he articulated this particular leadership challenge and what was done about it, I thought was interesting, and it really does revolve around these two keys of leverage and freedom. And so, the way that he explained it to me was, he's a founder, well into the life cycle of his business. Very successful, things are going well. But what he noticed was, as time went on and as their business grew, he actually became the bottleneck of the company. So, in other words, systems, communication, culture, different things that needed to advance, many things flowed through him and then out to whatever needed to be done. And he's like, man, I was actually the bottleneck. Like, I couldn't get frustrated at other people for inefficiencies or systems that weren't in place, because he just noticed, like, when I look into the mirror, I'm the one holding things up. I'm the bottleneck. So, what he did, and some of this came through the coaching that we're doing with him, some of it came from the mentor groups that he's involved with those types of things, but he really started to take seriously this idea of leveraging other people's gifted zones. So, he got a really good technology person on his team. He got a really good systems person on his team. A really good director of HR. So, he started assembling this team of assassins, like, people that were very gifted in this narrow skill set. Now, this happened over years, right? It wasn't like that, but things that used to be a bottleneck, he was able to leverage other people to really take it, be in their gifted zone, and get certain things done that was able to lead to growth, ultimate growth of the company. And so, he's like, the leverage that I was able to use with those people, not leveraging people for personal. Not at all but leverage them and then the organization is actually able to leverage my expertise as a leader, a good strategist, a good visionary, a good tone setter for the organization. We're each using leverage there. And he said then, and this was the best part when he said this, I was like, ding, ding, ding, LinkedIn live, right? He's like, we're leveraging each other's gifts for the betterment of the organization. But he's like, now I've got freedom, I've got margin and freedom where I can work in my gifted zone, doing what I'm passionate about, but altering where we want to go as an organization. But so can the team in each of their gifted zones. So, this idea of leverage and freedom is what came up. And that's where you and I said, well, this has come up so many times that we need to just get it out to the world. And here we are doing that right now.

Yeah. Clearly, for anybody listening and watching right now, and if you're going to listen to it later or in our podcast, Jason and I, we're not going to hide the fact that we come together and have some semblance of an idea of how we're going to present the topic and we do that. But I think true to what we do, Jason, even as I've heard this story, because you did say, hey, this is a story I was going to tell, so I'm just coming clean and going, that's what we do. But what's interesting is, as I heard that story, you just say it, it's funny what triggers in my mind. Like, I've heard it before, and I thought, okay, we're going to go down this road. I have a question for you. I don't want to derail us because we have a road, right? We're going down a road. But I have a question for you. For me, listening to you tell this story, again, this leader had this awareness. I'm the bottleneck. So, while I don't want to spend all our time talking about it, because I want to talk to leverage and freedom and how we maximize our growth as a company by doing that, because that's what we said, and that's great, it struck me, as you were saying that,, something we didn't talk about, like, that's a level of emotional intelligence, to even have that awareness.

Yeah.

And I don't know necessarily, I didn't think about, here's five points to have better emotional intelligence other than to say, let's not diminish the idea that it requires some level of awareness for someone to go and go, you know, I'm the bottleneck. I mean, even as you were saying, dude, we run our company, right? I was literally thinking, you know, where am I the bottleneck?


Well, here's what I would say around that, so good, great call out. And I can tell you that if you're the profile of a person that would be watching this right now or listening to us, you're probably a leader and it's statistically true that you're also probably one of the bottlenecks in your organization, right? Because it just goes hand in hand. So, if you're not aware of that and you don't think that, let this be your wakeup call that you probably are. Now, am I saying that you suck? You're guilty? You're the problem? You're the source of all the problems in your organization? No, but likely there is some sort of bottleneck that resides with you, and if you can just be open to the fact that that might be true, well, that's the beginnings of some really good work right there.        

Well, Jason, as it turns out, the company here that we run has been wanting me to talk to you about your bottleneckness.

Well, everybody except me.

Exactly. Well, the other part of your thing, when this person was telling you this story, you also made the comment that when he realized he was the bottleneck, he didn't go around going, this is you, and this is you, and this is you, right? And that's also awareness. Even as you were saying that, I was sitting there going, even when I'm the bottleneck, I still think I have some thoughts around, if so and so would only get this right, and if so and so would do that actually, that looking externally and wondering about where everybody else isn't getting it right, which, by the way, they can get better, too, I just think I didn't want to pass up the opportunity to recognize that that's a level of awareness and an emotional intelligence and a call out and a willingness to grow that is really foundationally at the core of making somebody coachable. Like, if we can't do that, our work, all the actions and whatever that we create all over the world, without awareness of someone going, where do I grow? So, I love that this person would have that level of awareness and something for us to see and study.     

   
            
Well, it's a great call out. To me, it's a ticket to the game. You don't get in the arena to even watch the game unless you've got the ticket of self-awareness. And I will say this as I engage most clients, and, dude, I can look at the guy in the mirror, too. I know you were kidding about what you said because, of course, there's no bottlenecks at Rewire because of me. But as I engage most people, and all kidding aside, me included, most people are not aware of that. And so, part of the work that you and I find ourselves doing is, okay, you came to us because you want to be a better communicator, or you want to grow sales. We probably have to take a few steps back first and work on self-awareness, emotional intelligence, adaptability, those types of things, which is, heck, why we started Rewire to begin with. So, yeah, the awareness piece is not just huge, it's foundational, it's fundamental.

Well, I want to get to the two kind of keys brought in terms of growth, too, which is this individual talking about leverage and freedom and ultimate freedom. It was funny to hear you, Jason, talk about leverage and freedom, and you quickly qualified both. And I think the qualification that you made was worthy of like a quick, that's why we do LinkedIn live. I mean, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but your qualification was when you spoke about leverage, you quickly wanted to go, this really isn't about exploitation. We're not trying to exploit.

Exactly right. Yes. In fact, just the opposite. So, exploiting somebody would be, hey, we need you to work even more hours and we're going to cut your pay, but we just need you to do it, do it, do it. That could be a form of exploitation. This type of leverage is exactly the opposite. Meaning, let's get the need that we have in our organization, whatever that is, let's say it's, I don't know, marketing. Let's get somebody who just is passionate about marketing and who is good at it. And I know that you've been talking about flow and being in the zone a lot recently, Steve.

                                                                                                         
"Let's get somebody that when they're doing marketing, they're in their gifted zone and they are in flow state. Now, that person, they love what they're doing. They're passionate about it. Oh, yeah, they're getting paid to do it. And now I don't need to be the bottleneck in my organization because not only am I leading the company and dealing with these issues over here, but, oh, yeah, I got to be in charge of marketing, too. Now, I don't have to be in charge of marketing because somebody who loves it and is passionate and is good at it is doing it. So, it's leveraging their gifts and talents for the betterment of the organization. And so, to me, it's exactly the opposite of the exploitation piece."

Well, yeah. And you talked about flow. I don't know why you came up with marketing. I watched your brain just sort. It could have been sales growth, it could have been cultural, and you picked marketing. You know, you even using that example, it hit me because as it turns out, it's not something I should be involved in. I don't have any flow in that now. We're a small organization, so I get involved in stuff. Maybe I can, whatever, but sometimes when I'm thinking, I got to do this and I got to do that, it's a got a thing. I got to do that. And nothing will get you out of flow faster than the got to’s. As opposed to finding someone like people that we know who, when they think about marketing, like, they get jazzed up. I want to be spending time with that, whatever. And that's the leverage that we're talking about. So, I just loved that qualification. We're not exploiting people, but then even that, maybe we are exploiting people, but we're exploiting their flow. So, I would think that that level of exploitation, when we find those people, they're like that freedom, right? Those are the two things.        

That's exactly right.

The leader has freedom. Because if I hear you right, they figured out that they were a bottleneck. They chose to go find people who could, maybe they could put into flow, and it created freedom. And then you were like, yeah, but the freedom here was your second qualification, right?        
            
Yeah.

Freedom wasn't necessarily, okay, I get to go do nothing. The freedom was, you know, you and I wake up and hope, at least vocationally, we can be in flow.

That's right.

What am I doing to be in flow? So when I'm in flow, we call it flow, that's kind of the scientific term. Other people in sports call it being in the zone. Like you said, dude, there's a ton of research on flow and what it means to get there. And by the way, as it turns out, neurobiologically, it's not easy. If it were easy, MLB baseball players would all bat 910.

Right.


They don't. Right? But they're trying to find flow at the plate, just like we're trying to find flow when we can bring people into our world who find flow in what they're doing, and it allows me to get into flow and find what I'm doing, well, freedom.

Exactly. You're calling it exactly out. To use your baseball analogy and further it a little bit, because it is spring training for you baseball buffs out there. Time to get excited again. I've heard batters that when they're doing well in a season and things are going really well for them, I hear this analogy where they say the ball just looks like it's moving slower to me than it used to, and it's because they're in that zone, they're in flow. And at that point in time in history of their life with their game, the ball is moving slower because they have it. And for the people that you hire to do the specific thing that they love that they're passionate about, that they get jazzed up to do, the ball just moves slower for them, and they're enjoying it. So, it's not like, man, by the sweat of my brow, this got done. It's like, no, you said it earlier. I get to do this type of thing. So, it's good for the team member that's doing that thing. It's good for the leader because they get to do what they're passionate about for the organization, and it's ultimately good for vendors, clients, and any other stakeholders in the organization. It's truly a win-win.

Well, we run the risk of making our episode here about flow, but is it okay if I riff on that for a second?

Do it. Go for it.        
            
Because in this particular case, finding flow, finding the right energy, being in the zone, we're not going to be there 24 hours a day.

Right. That's a good point. That's a good point.

We're not. We're nothing if not realists, like, no. Conversely, if we're never there, Dr. Daniel Siegel, who was head of neurobiology for a while at UCLA and now runs the Mindset Institute. He is one of many people who have written about this, the Chihali Chiska Siska, Holly. I forget that guy's name. Actually, he was an American Hungarian guy who, I think he pioneered the concept of flow. Somebody's going to write in and go, here's how to say his name, Steve. But it's a bizarre name. Anyway, he passed away a few years ago. He was the doctor of flow, right? Dr. Siegel writes about it, and he says something really said, you know, he refers to, because flow kind of sounds like water, water flows. And so, he references a river, because rivers flow. And he actually says something that I think is super interesting. On the banks of the river of flow, he calls out two banks, the bank of chaos and the bank of rigidity. And so, Dr. Siegel says, when we're not in flow, we have a tendency to either be on the bank of chaos or the bank of rigidity.        

Yeah.

And I have found that really interesting in my coaching, because rigidity sort of sounds like a confinement. I got to do this, and I got to do that. Chaos is really marked more by, oh, my God, I got a million things going on or whatever. And so maybe your leader that's sort of cool about coaching is because people have insights when they're aware. And I'm sure he didn't express it like this, but he was like, you know, I'm not finding freedom. Now, I don't know if he was on the bank of rigidity or the bank of chaos, but he wasn't finding flow. This great awareness, like, whoa. But what if I could, and through coaching and whatever, through his own examination of him, realizes that flow for him is when he can make decisions to have other people find flow for them?  

Yeah, that's exactly right.

And get them off the bank. I mean, do we have people in our organizations that are like, by the way, if the people that you hire, if they're on the bank of rigidity or the bank of chaos, no one's finding flow. And again, it doesn't mean you're going to shrivel up and die. I think it's pretty hard to attain our goals when no one's in flow.        

Well, I would say most of the people that are listening or watching us, they've experienced being in the zone or flow at some degree, at some level. And I would say that more often than not, individuals within organizations and organizations themselves, they're always bouncing in and out of flow, right? There are days where chaos rules, and then there's other days where the rigidity piece is, like, getting in the way, right? But to continue to jump back in the river and seek out that flow, that causes the leverage for really things to advance one for yourself and your career and your team and your project, but also the organization. So, it's that thing. I mean, it's partly why you and I have jobs, right, Steve? Like, if it was just easy to run a business and lead people and everything worked great all the time, and people always behaved the way that they were supposed to behave, and markets were always amazing, there'd be no need for coaching, right? But the way human nature is in business and markets, it's just this constant, like, okay, we're out. We're a little messed up right now. We're bottlenecking. We're having a problem. Okay, boom, let's get aware and let's do things and use the leverage and experience the freedom. So, there's this constant in and out type of thing. I think the reason that we wanted to come here today was to say, these are two things that, if you haven't thought about it in this way, boy, it might be an interesting way to look at things.

Leverage and freedom.

That’s exactly right.

And we've bounced back and forth on those. We want to experience freedom. And you and I, again, in our talk ahead of time, we were like, freedom. Hey, is that freedom to go, now you can go play golf or you can go to a park, or you don't even have to work anymore? That kind of freedom. We were like, no, that's not we're talking about. And then I said to you, you know, and yet, what's wrong with that, right? Maybe it does get you time. Maybe your freedom is being able to take some vacation. How many leaders are out there right now, like, I'm burning and churning. There's no vacations, there's no downtime, there's no whatever. And as we leverage and find this flow for ourselves and others, through awareness, we can find that freedom. So, I also didn't want to diminish the idea that freedom could look like, but we wanted to be careful that it wasn't like, if everybody else is leveraged perfectly, then I can go, and mess around and not do anything. But that gets back to the exploitation we're not trying to exploit so that we don't have to do anything. And by the way, you and I are getting of the age where we talk about retirement. I was just thinking about this right now. Retirement. When people talk about that, I think they dream anyway of like, when I retire, I'll be able to find flow. They haven't used that terminology. I think for me, the reason I don't think that retirement is going to be in my cards is because you and I are trying to find flow here. If I can find flow here, why would I retire from this?

Yeah.

Now, if I can't find flow here, maybe that makes sense. But I think you and I come closer when we are asking the question about leverage. How do we leverage ourselves? How do we leverage, what is the lever? And that's back to finding people in their gifted zone than things they're passionate about.

No, I still remember a conversation you and I had years ago, and we talked about not leveraging freedom, but just the freedom piece of it. And freedom to many people, me included, and I think you included, is freedom to do the things that you're passionate about and gifted at a lot of times. Those are things that can help the organization. But then you're right. Also, time off the grid, time not working. Maybe it is fishing. Maybe it is golfing. Maybe it is a vacation. And, gosh, you and I have done episodes on this, Steve. Right?

 

                                                                                                 
"When you have time away like that to get recharged, get refreshed, do everything, guess what? That's typically good for the organization as well. So, it's good for you and the organization. And when you're experiencing that as a leader and you have set up an environment where your team can also experience that for themselves, again, we've got win-wins here. It's not you winning at the expense of your people, it's everybody winning for the gain of the organization."


And you say you remember that conversation, but I'm going to challenge you. Do you remember where we were?

Southern California. I remember it like it was yesterday.

Where were we? Come on.        
            
We were in Torrey Pines. I know exactly where we were. It was on the road to somewhere.

We walked all these people from Southern California. I'm trying to butter up to them. So, they're like, we literally walked from, you know, that's near La Jolla. We walked from there to Del Mar. Del Mar. The road to Del Mar.

That's right.        
            
That was a long walk to Del Mar. And we had this freedom talk. See, that was it, by the way, ironically, what a sense of freedom we felt talking about.

Well, I only bring that up because I think it's a topic that many leaders think about. And there are a lot of leaders that even kind of fascinate about this because it doesn't seem like it's a possible reality for them. And I think one of the reasons that we're even doing this discussion today is it not only can be a reality, we're watching it be a reality, right? With clients. And so, Steve, that's a really good segue. I know we've got a minute or two left, but I do want to put this up because there are people that every time we do this, they're like, okay, I want some of that, or sign my people up for that, or can our whole executive team be involved in that? And so, I'm just going to put up this QR code really quickly in one fashion or another. This QR code will get you to me, and we can further a discussion about leverage and freedom. We can further a discussion on how to maximize your impact, whether that's through executive coaching or leadership programs or whatever. But we'd love for you to reach out to us. But Steve, as people are getting their QR codes and getting to look at our website or starting to do that, how would you think about closing us today, brother?

I don't know. I sort of feel like maybe the way that I would close, first of all, what insights did you have? These concepts that we're bringing to the table are incredibly personal, and they're not, unfortunately, they're not prescriptive. You and I, as coaches, it's not this, this, this. And so, I would just invite you to ask the question, what is it that brings you freedom? And where might you use leverage for yourself and other people as a leader to do that and recognize that there are even people like us, that that's what we focus on helping people do? And it's been an amazing journey to actually watch people do it. So, hope you take advantage of it. And grateful to always be with you, Jason.

Yeah, really good stuff. Thanks for tuning in, everybody. Thanks for listening, podcast listeners. And Steve, as always, great to be with you, brother.

Good to be with you. Peace.        

                                                                                                               ---

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Important Links

• Apple Podcast – The Insight Interviews
• Spotify – The Insight Interviews
• Google – The Insight Interviews
• LinkedIn: Jason or Steve
• Grow@RewireInc.com