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Ready to rethink what truly fuels growth? Jason and Steve reveal why systems alone aren’t enough—and why people are the real growth engine. Learn how soft skills, mindset, and personalized development plans drive meaningful transformation across organizations. Discover why ongoing coaching, adaptive thinking, and leadership by example are the keys to avoiding stagnation and unlocking next-level performance. Whether you're leading a team or leading yourself, this episode challenges you to shift from process-driven to people-first growth. Let’s explore the human side of scaling success!

 

In this episode, Jason and Steve discuss:

  • Why elite systems alone won’t lead to lasting growth without human development
  • The importance of mindset, soft skills, and personalized development in the workplace
  • Four key principles to drive growth through people instead of just process
  • How leaders can model the behavior they wish to see in their teams
  • The measurable ROI of investing in ongoing personal and professional coaching

Key Takeaways:

  • Without prioritizing people development, even the best processes eventually plateau. Human growth is not just complementary—it’s foundational to real progress.
  • Growth isn’t a checkbox; it’s a commitment. The episode emphasizes how cultivating a culture of continuous learning and evolving mindsets is what separates thriving teams from stagnant ones.
  • Rather than issuing directives, impactful leaders set the tone by embodying the very changes they seek—proving that transformation begins from the inside out, not as a top-down directive.
  • Individualized development rooted in personality, goals, and strengths isn’t just empowering—it’s essential for retention and engagement in today’s workforce.
  • Professional coaching emerges not merely as an optional perk but as a powerful catalyst for transformation, offering a mirror to reframe thinking, challenge assumptions, and accelerate lasting personal and organizational change.

 

“We are the ones that adapt in a system. And when we can do that, we can take systems that we built and make them better. But if we don't focus on people—how we process, how we develop our skills, and how we get better internally—then everything seems to stagnate and get flat.”

 - Steve Scanlon

Connect with Jason and Steve:

 

Listen to the podcast here:


Jason and Steve- The Hidden Driver of Leadership Excellence

Well, hello everyone, and welcome to our LinkedIn Live event. We want to welcome you as you come into this event. For all of you that are live, and I'm sure many that will listen after the show, we want to welcome you. My name is Steve Scanlon, I am the CEO, and I have my business partner, Jason Abell, he's the president of our organization Rewire. Jason, dude, welcome.

Welcome. Thank you. I feel welcomed. Welcome everybody. Good to good to see everybody live and all that. Welcome. Welcome

We get to be back together. We were just together, you and I, in Georgia, of all crazy states. Little crazier for me than you because you're over there. But today's topic is one that, you know, again, you and I now spend quite a bit of time preparing for, and the team thinks through this stuff. And it's kind of funny, even though people are showing up to this, they might not realize, like, I don't know. I get excited about it. I think what we're going to do today and the topic that we're bringing forth, I find it incredibly relevant time in and time out when we're coaching and so, dude, I know you've got a story about it, so talk to us. What do you got?

Yeah, well, before we start, we do have people, a bunch of people register for this thing, and people actually show up. So, for those of you that have showed up, hello, welcome. If you want to type into the chat where you're from, that might be kind of cool, but it's good to have you all with us. And yeah, we have a story. When you and I were talking prerecording, or last week, when we were prepping, we went through three or four different stories we could tell, and we're like, we're here right in front of a group. This is the perfect example. And so, we'll just give that example. I mean, we were with a group of accountants last week in the great state of Georgia, like you said, and not only was it a group of accountants, but this is like a tried and true 75-year-old organization. When you think of like accountants, these are like elite accountants that help big organizations, and you want to talk about systems? Like, if you are a big accounting firm like that, and you don't have systems, you got a problem on your hands, right? And then they hire us. Well, we're not systems people. We're the last thing from skill set people, right? We've done podcast episodes on this, you know, mindset over skill set, that type of thing, so, they bring us in, and you and I were talking, Steve and good on them for bringing us in, not because we're so great or anything, but they've realized that systems are great. And when it comes to accounting practices, you got to have systems in place. There's no question about that. But when it comes to running an organization and running elite teams and changing and growing and scaling and adapting, it's going to take more than systems. In fact, our head of research and development, Steve Longen, and God love him, he wrote an article last month on exactly this topic that systems will only get you so far, especially organizational systems. And why we say good on this firm for bringing an organization like us in is because they realized we have 130 people, I think in total, in their organization, and we better pay a lot of attention to like the actual people. Yes, systems, but the people within the systems and individual personality profiles, individual gifted zones, expertise, how people are thinking about change in the industry and AI and other things. And so, gosh, we spent an entire day with them on things like mindset and soft skills, and Steve, I'll end with this, we got comments from them over and over again on, this is the best session we've ever been a part of. We've done this retreat thing, for years, and we've had different speakers. This was the best one, because we concentrated on ourselves and soft skills and mindset, and we did exercises and these are things that are going to fuel our growth into the future. So, yeah, here we are talking about it.

Well, Jason, like we do, we're gonna offer here shortly, because we try to make this as tangible as possible, and when you get into things like talking about people over systems, you mentioned soft skills, like that whole realm of things, even when we do stuff like this, it's the weirdest, almost taboo feeling type thing, because, I mean, systems are great because they're tangible, we can measure them, we can see them, we can do them. I remember looking at you right before I went up and I was about to speak to them, and I was just teasing you, and I was like, okay, what are we going to say? Something like teach them on GAP principles, right?

GAP accounting principles.

Yeah, GAP accounting. And I was like, man, that would be the shortest talk I ever gave, right? Like, because what was I going to teach these people that they didn't know about that? And yet, what they were coming to, and the owners and leaders of this organization knew that if they were going to grow as an organization, it had to go beyond just coming back together and saying, you know, what are the latest GAP principles? What are the latest changes in the governmental stuff? How do we look at accounting? Which, by the way, is really important.

Right on.

But one of the things that we notice time and time again, and maybe you're listening to this right now, and you're hearing it, and maybe you are part of an organization that has, man, it's a little bit of a harsh word, but stagnated. It is very, very common. Jason, you and I both know this, and we deal with it all the time, that there is a normal pattern to growth organizationally, I might even say relationally, but let's just take organizations, that there's usually a, hey, we did this and we built a system, and we did it in our company, and we're going to do it like this, and it works, but if you don't adapt over time, the systems only take you so far, and therefore there is a plateau. Some people keep trying to develop the systems, and eventually it starts to, for many organizations do this. So, for us, and this is why Steve wrote that article, and what you and I get to experience and all the time in coaching is there's an intervention, and that intervention isn't about, what's the new system? How do we upgrade it? Again, those things are fine, but what's really been noticed, and it was noticed by these people, I'm going to hold this up that way, so people don't think we're making stuff up. This is Immunity to Change, by Robert Keegan and Lisa Leahy. They noticed that the one thing that is absolutely necessary so that we don't just plateau and start going down is actually the development of human resources and people.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

What is it that we can do with that? And so our great accounting firm, to their credit, you said, good on them, and you know, yeah, we're cool at what we do and all of that blah, blah, blah, whatever. What was cool for them is that they recognized it.

Yep.

And they were like, I can hear that CEO right now going soft skills. How do we develop as people so that we can take the existing systems and add a level of adaptiveness to it? We are the ones that adapt in a system. And when we can do that, we can take systems that we built and make them better. But if we don't focus on people and how we process and our skills and how we get better internally, then everything seems to stagnate and get flat.

Yeah, 100%. Man, we got people from coast to coast. We got people from California. We got people from Pennsylvania, the DMV area, which is very cool. I would say this. Yes, we're talking about organizations, but anything that we're about to talk about, as far as adapting mindset fueling growth over processes and systems, know that whether you lead an organization, you're a CEO or in the C suite or a founder, or you're in charge of leading yourself, these principles that we're about to cover are just as important for both people and everywhere in between. And so, I don't want you to go, oh, well, I'm not a CEO. Click and gone. No. The principles that we're about to talk about, it's just as important for you as an individual as it is for scaling and growing an organization. So, yeah.

And I will just say Jason, really quickly, because we’re to give you four things. We have a tendency to do that. Let's at least give you something tangible, which is sort of ironic, right?

We have systems about not having a system.

I want to just mention a couple things. We're not saying at all that systems aren't useful or necessary or important or good. We know they are. We absolutely know they are. What we are saying is one of the things that we noticed, which, by the way, which is why there is an immunity sometimes to change, is that when you get into the people element of this and how we're developing our employees, developing ourselves, developing people, a couple things I want to point out. It's messy. I think there could be, especially with new organizations and developing organizations that are growing, we see this abundance of focus on systems, because we can control it. When you start getting into the human part of it, number one, it's messy. Number two, it's difficult to put an ROI to it. It just is. Hey, if your people get better, what's the ROI? Now, we belong to some organizations that have done that, and we've even done it, and we're going to maybe even talk about how we can do that, but I think there's a gravitational pull towards just keep developing more systems, and maybe not people, because the people thing, one, it's messy, two, organic, it's about people. But there is a way to do it, and for the people that do it, they do see a huge ROI.

Oh, big time. And we've got stats behind that. I mean, you want to talk about not just helping your people out, making them happier, those soft and tangible things, but we've got data behind lower turnover rates that equal dollars, higher productivity that also equals dollars. Higher engagement, being able to recruit top talent. You know, those things that you can absolutely put a dollar amount to that from an investment standpoint. So, it's the intangible leading to tangible. For sure.

Yeah, 100%.

Well, we've got how to grow and how to either build a team that fuels growth, or how to build yourself you know that that fuels growth, and we've got four ways that we want to talk about today. The first way is to create and develop individual growth plans, individual development plans, not this thing where it's like, okay, you're a part of the organization, and because you're a part of the organization, this is the way that you're going to develop. Or, what I saw in corporate America, and I was a cog in this wheel, which is, okay, we're gonna have semiannual reviews, and that's the way that we do it. And man, as a guy in middle management at the time, I really just felt like I was checking boxes. Like, was I actually helping the individual that was in front of me, or was I checking the box that corporate wanted me to check? Oh, man, it was tough. But what we're saying today is create individual development plans for people based on their personality profile, their expertise level, where it is that they want to go within the organization and within their job, not just this, like, okay, here's a system, boom, go, right? Like, individual development plans.

Yeah, when I hear that, and I guess what I would flavor that with a little bit is I hear the word, and we've used this a lot inside our organization, Jason, the word that we use is emergent. That is something that is taken from the world of physics. When you have an emergent property, it is something that gives rise to itself. And so, the best example of that, that I always think of, and I look up because I'm looking out my window, are clouds. Clouds are emergent. What that means is we don't really know where they're going, what they're doing, but they give rise to themselves. When you're dealing individually with people, you start working with an individual, and you realize that this person can grow in this area over here, and like this and like this and like this. The next person you deal with, that's what you mean by individual plans. That's not their growth strategy at all. They have a different personality, they have a different behavioral pattern, they have different styles, they have different everything. And so, a lot of organizations come in and they're like, I don't know if I want to deal with those differences, so why don't we just offer a one size fits all for everybody? So, when you say, offer these plans at organic, I think we now have both the technology and the ability, and even what we do allows for individual development plans. And when we do that, I think we can make a huge, huge difference. You can already hear that that's sort of anti-systematic. We're not against the system, but this is a way that allows for different people to grow where they need to, and it's a huge and powerful way to develop people.

Yeah, no question. No question. So, number two. We've got a system that we're going to put in place here. Number two, make the development plan ongoing, not episodic. So, this goes hand in hand with the first one. So sometimes we see organizations where we just need a workshop on communication and we're going to be one and done, you know? It makes me think of the husband that tells the wife, the wife says, you know, do you do you love me? He's like, Yeah, I told you I loved you when we got married. It's like, the same thing with a workshop or an annual review, like we see the best of the best organizations where leadership isn't just one workshop, it's continued coaching, continue feedback, real time learning as situations arise. Like, it's just a culture of development and learning, not just this, like, okay, we taught you that and now we're done. Go do your thing, right?

Yeah. And we've seen some organizations that just do this really, really well. Unfortunately, like you mentioned a lot don't. I mean, even if they catch wind of this idea that they can help someone grow, I will just offer up, Jason, look, do you have a growth mindset, or don't you have a growth mindset?

Right. Right, right, right.

Right? That is what we're talking about. We're talking about how we can help people develop this growth mindset. But to your point, is a growth mindset episodic? Is it just, do this thing. Did we have a workshop? Oh, we put one person into coaching for six months, right? And we do these things, and there's a lot of boxes checking out there. There are some people that aren't even doing that, right? But what we're trying to put out there, and again, love to hear your thinking about this is and you already shared some things, but what if you embraced the idea that it was in perpetuity and it was ongoing? It's culture. Man, we've got some organizations sometimes where I'll come in and clients are like, oh, we're reading this new book on this and that, and this and that, and I'm always thinking, that's awesome.

Yeah. It's a culture, individually. You know, you may say a habit or a lifestyle versus like, I don't know, we work with people that, you know, we're always helping them with business things, but so often the personal kind of floats its way in there, because we're just one being, you know? One mind, one body, and that same mind and body is at work and at home, and sometimes we talk about health stuff with our clients, and it's the difference between going on a diet to lose weight, versus being the person that is less weight than they are now, right? Like, it's a lifestyle. This is just how I live, versus, oh, I'm doing this thing right now. So, development organizationally is the same way. Am I just doing the workshop, or am I just having one session with a coach, or is it ongoing? This is what we do. We do book clubs, we have quarterly workshops, we do continuous feedback with management and leadership. It’s different from a cultural standpoint versus a one and done standpoint.

Yeah, well, I loved your analogy about a diet. That's just that simple. Are you on a diet or are you changing how you think, right? And ironically, I think anyone listening to this right now, like, hey, do diets work? Like, what would most people say?

Maybe short term at best.

But here's what's really interesting. Is it still a thing that's sold out there in the world?

Of course.

So, something that we know doesn't work is still sold and that's what we're talking about. Like, no, let's be the people that don't just get sold something, but go beyond it and have something in perpetuity, and that's what this one was about. All right, keep going.

The next one is model the mindset that you want to see. So as leaders, leaders set the tone. It’s just the way that it is. Things flow from the top on down, and when you as a leader, again, leading yourself or an entire organization, when you invest in yourself and then those around you, putting your time and energy and capital into those around you, and then you share your own learning journey and what things are like, others are more likely to follow suit. So be the change that you want to see model the mindset that you want to see in others.

Yeah. Jason, not too long ago, it was a few years that our organization was hired by a software company, and there was this general sense that the leadership, we'll call them the C suite, they hired us because they had this idea that they knew the people, they had systems, they knew the people needed to change, and so they hired us. And I remember going there, and I spent the better part of 30 days interviewing people, putting people through a process, doing 360s, I was getting my hands dirty really listening to all these people, and as I did that, I just realized, like, whoa. Like, there's some really interesting stuff going on here. When it came time for me, I was going to make this big presentation to that group of leaders, there were like, seven or eight of them in the room, and they got all excited. They thought I was going to come in and do this thing and I came in and I said to them, okay, I've done all this research, we wrote all this stuff up, and here was my conclusion for them. And I said, you all need to change. They all nodded, and one of them finally said something like, yeah, they do. I was like, no, no. I was like, no, no, no, you guys need to change. And they kept saying, yeah, they do. That's why we called you out here. And I and I finally had to go. Jimmy, Susie, Billy, you need to change. And at that point, I just remember there was a period of time where they were like, no, we didn't call you for that.

You got too real, too quick.

Because to your point, we have to model this. We have organizations that come to us that want to put people into coaching and stuff and it's their people, and we'll do that, but our first line is, are you in coaching? Are you thinking about that as a leader? Because how do you model it?

Steve, this has gotten to the point now where you know, after 11 years, I mean, I still do most of the discovery calls for Rewire. I've gotten to the point now when I'm talking to a founder, a CEO, somebody in the C suite, I will listen for that language, and now, because we're just at a different stage in our life cycle of the business, if I hear language which is, they, they, they versus we, we, we, or me, me, me, I'll tell them right there and then on the discovery call, you keep on referring to them and they I don't know if we're a good fit for you, and here's why. And most of the people that call us these days, they get it, there's already a good match, but very often the owners will go, I need help just like them. And I'm like, oh, we're going to do some really cool things together. Because when you start off with that mindset that you're going to model it yourself as a leader, and boy, we hope this is pervasive throughout the organization, that's just something where we know it's going to work, versus, like the example that you gave.

100%.

We got one more.


Go.

We're rounding third here, headed towards home. I love doing these things so much. It makes me sad that we're going to be done in a few minutes. But the last one, and you and I always kind of kid around about this, it seems self-serving, but I'm just going to say up front, I'm going to give it and then I'm going to take it away. So, here's what this means. To build a team or your individual self that fuels growth, like puts it on fire, the fourth thing that you should do is engage in professional coaching. And again, that seems like, oh, they just want us to hire Rewire. No, go, go hire another coaching company. Fine. We'd love for you to hire us if it seems like it's a right fit, but go get outside help, because we've just seen the benefit of it so much. That's why you and I ended up creating Rewire. We know the benefit and the true game changing aspect. Like when you put your time and money into developing yourself, your self and your organization typically gets developed. So engage in professional coaching.

I loved what you said. Even if it’s not us, it doesn’t have to be just about us. If you’re not going to engage with Rewire, do yourself a favor and engage with somebody. I might recommend if you’re going to vet that out, look at people who look at this work in a holistic way. That is not just based on actions and behavior modifications, but rather how we are thinking. Back to that one point of making it an adaptive model and customized, to be honest, this is the bane of our existence. I have been doing this for 26 years. What’s funny is, when people ask what coaching is about, I say I’m not sure, and the reason is it’s modified so much for who the person is. It’s not prescriptive. It is not a prescriptive process. It is organic and holistic process whereby we serve individuals and when a collection of people gets that, the growth can be unbelievable. And the last thing I will say, I have been noticing, and I have seen research about what happened in the pandemic. Good research takes time. The pandemic was terribly detrimental. When we isolate, you start to believe everything you think. When you get good coaching, and that is what we represent. I have said some things to you, and you have looked at me like, really? Turns out, I needed that look.

 

Yes. We all do.

 

I need you to go, Steve, what? Or reflect back what I said. If we don’t get that, we literally believe what we think. Some of it is really good, but you need someone in your life to ask questions and help you model and be thinking differently about how you think. That is what coaching is all about.

 

That’s exactly right. We got two minutes here. To summarize, first of all, yes this takes investment and resources, but not doing these things, the cost is higher. How to build a team and self to fuel growth, make development ongoing not just episodic, model the actions and mindset that you want to see and engage in profession coaching. There is the summary. Very often we will get people in these scenarios saying, what now? Get a hold of us, which is in the show notes. Get in touch with us. We are happy to help you. Steve, my friend, we did it. There we go. Say goodbye to everyone.

Goodbye. Look, I will end with this. Our ideas are not as important as yours. What hit you? What will you take away from this? That is more valuable than what we ring to the table. We are grateful for you and look forward to the next one. Thanks, Jsaon.

 

Thanks, Steve.

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