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Laura Michael is one of Rewire's Professional Certified Coaches, focusing primarily in Leadership Coaching. Laura is a communication connoisseur with a passion for helping individuals break free from societal expectations and embrace their true potential. She has spent over 20 years in corporate America, and currently owns and operates Professional Box Breaker, where she provides leadership coaching programs to organizations as an employee benefit for rising leaders. Through her own experiences and coaching conversations, Laura inspires others to navigate their own paths with confidence and embrace the freedom of living outside the box. 

 

In this episode, Jason and Jon discuss:

  • The concept of “Raise the Ceiling, Raise the Floor” and how it applies to leadership and personal growth
  • Why letting go of low-impact tasks creates space for true growth
  • The power of choosing intentional discomfort in both work and life
  • How this model supports team development and upward mobility for everyone
  • Strategies for reframing delegation and aligning team goals with personal growth

Key Takeaways:

  • Growth isn’t just about doing more—it’s about doing differently. To evolve, we must intentionally release what no longer serves us.
  • Your comfort zone may feel productive, but real transformation happens in the discomfort of your "ceiling" and the release of your "floor."
  • Delegation is not simply handing off tasks—it's about building trust, creating support systems, and enabling others to step into their own stretch zones.
  • You don’t need a big team to grow. Automation, outsourcing, or even shifting priorities can create the space needed to elevate your capacity.

“The beauty of this model is that your floor is someone else's ceiling, and your ceiling is somebody else's floor. It ends up being this beautiful staircase where everybody levels up together, as long as everybody is taking on some ceiling and giving away some floor.”

 - Laura Michael

Connect with Laura Michael:

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Listen to the podcast here:

 

Laura Michael- Raise The Ceiling (and the floor)

Hello and welcome everybody to this episode of The Insight Interviews. We've got a repeat guest today, and I tell you what, there's only a small handful of people that have been repeat guests, so I'm excited to reintroduce to the podcast world, Laura Michael. Laura is one of our coaches here at Rewire, but gosh, bigger and greater than that, mother of children, a wife of a husband, a background in business that just goes on and on and on. You can see it on LinkedIn. She's been with some really, really cool companies before she stepped out a few years ago and started her own company, which is about the same time that you and I got introduced to one another, Laura, and you started coaching with us at the same time that you started your own organization, Box Breaker, and now you've got some concepts that you want to go over with us today. You're an ICF International Coaching Federation certified coach, and really one of the best in the business. And when I say that, and I will give you an opportunity to speak, I promise, but when I say that, when I say best in the business, here's specifically what she's the best at: she helps people feel comfortable and feel that it's okay to be themselves. I've seen her do this over and over again, and she even did it with me this morning. I'll tell you, podcast word, I came into this particular interview, not in my podcast studio, a little disheveled, if truth be known, and she just put me at ease. And here we go. We're rocking and rolling. So, Laura, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Jason. It's such a joy to be here again with you. I loved our first podcast recording, so this is one of my favorite spaces to be in, in conversation with you.

Well, that episode has gotten downloaded a bunch. I mean, we keep track of who gets listened to, who gets repeatedly listened to, and you're up there. We've got statistics and people, not only you and I liked the conversation, but so did other people. So, I'm pumped to be here. So, you know this because you have been a guest before, but as we start off today, we've got some cool concepts to get to, and I want to learn more about what you're up to these days and how you're helping people, but who or what are you especially grateful for this morning, as you and I engage one another?

Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to think about this question before I joined you in this meeting. I wish I did it a little bit more regularly in my own life, and maybe I'll take this as a cue to do that. You know, I put some thought into it this morning, and I am feeling grateful for a lot of things in my life recently. I think that the thing I will highlight this morning is just this opportunity to wake up every day and make the day whatever we choose, right? It's like every day is a restart button. We wake up anew, no matter what happened yesterday, no matter who we were yesterday, how we showed up yesterday, whether we're proud of it or we're not, whether we're happy with how yesterday went or not, whether, you know, whatever happened yesterday doesn't matter anymore. When we wake up today, it's a new day, and we get to choose what we create for ourselves and for others, and I think that that's the gift I'm grateful for this morning. I woke up in a great mood knowing that I was coming on your show this morning.

That’s fun.

You know, just something to look forward to and something fun and creative to do. So, yeah, grateful for today, Jason.

That's so good. I feel like we could just talk about that for the next 30 minutes. I appreciate that. I'm already taking notes, Laura. New beginnings and yesterday doesn't matter. How many people, either you or me or the person that's listening right now, or any of our clients, like, I just feel like that's a good message, even if yesterday was a good day, and it was great. But so often, I don't know if it's regret or we feel like we could have done, done something different yesterday, or said something different, or whatever, but every day, when we wake up, it's a new opportunity, just like you said. So, yeah, really great. Really great.

You know, I think even though you and I are both coaches and we operate in this world of you know, being very present to how we're showing up and who we're being and what we're up to every day, I think that we're still human, and so that reflection gives us this grace of humanity, right? Like, we still have days where we're like, oh man, I kind of wish this had gone differently, or, you know, that wasn't my best day, or, you know, we're human. We have that experience of life, no matter who we are and what we do for a living and where we live, and so just, I think that that really relates to everybody, just being able to say, you know what? Today's a chance to begin again.

So, if you're listening to this, you're experiencing, you know, what I was trying to articulate in the introduction. I don't know if you feel comfortable right now listener, but I know I do. And Laura just has a way of doing that. And we track our coaching clients and how they're doing and how their journey is, and the comments that we get are the things that you're feeling right now. “Laura makes me feel so comfortable.” “I can be myself.” “I know that I'm going to be okay, and that I'm good and that I can now expand, you know, and do better.” And that just happens a lot, which is a really good on ramp for where we're going today. You know, you and I talked about different topics, you know, that we could cover. And I remember, I don't know when it was a month ago, a month ago or so, where you're like, I got something I'd really like to talk about, and I don't want to introduce it. I want you to introduce it, but I'm excited to dig into it. So, tell us the name, the concept, and what you're working on these days.

Yeah. So, I've been bringing a concept to my clients that was so impactful for me as I was beginning my coaching journey, and it had such a large impact on me as I was thinking about where I was in my career, what I wanted for myself next, and what growth looked like to me. And so, I've been bringing this concept to my clients repeatedly, really continuously and consistently. If you work with me, you pretty much get a chance to dig into this concept, and I'm finding that it's just had a similarly deep impact with my clients as it did with me, and so I am just excited to share it. I'm excited to get it out there and get a broader audience to have this tool and this way of thinking, to be able to use in their own growth, in their own expansion. The concept is called Raise the Ceiling, and it's something that I have put into visuals in my mind, I work with my clients to put it into visuals on their papers, in their notebooks. It's something I'm working on writing about and sharing more broadly. So, if it works for you, Jason, I'll just dig into it.

Yeah, please, please, yeah.

Okay. So essentially, when this concept comes up, we're in a conversation about what's next, right? We're in a conversation about, I'm seeking this type of growth. I'm looking for my next level of growth. I'm looking to stretch out of my comfort zone and into something new. And so, the visual that I like to use is like a glass cube. The glass cube represents your capacity and because it's glass, it can't change shape, it can't get bigger, it can't get smaller. And so I would say, by and large, most of us feel as though our capacity cube is pretty full, right?

Yeah.

Like we're pretty much operating at capacity usually. And so, when we look to take on more, when we look to grow and take on tasks or opportunities that are outside of our comfort zone, if we try to put them into a full cube, then something spills out. So instead, we're talking about this glass cube kind of being a little bit like an elevator, right? It has to move up. The whole thing has to move up. And so, we're raising the ceiling and we're simultaneously raising the floor. We can't raise the ceiling of the box unless the floor simultaneously raises. This is a cube. And when I have folks draw this on paper, it ends up looking a little bit like an ice cream sandwich. I say, you know, draw a square, and then we're going to section off the top 10% and the bottom 10%, so it's going to end up looking a little bit like a square ice cream sandwich. Lots of ice cream in the center. So, the top cookie of the sandwich is your ceiling, and your ceiling represents the growth space that you want. These are the things that you want to take on. The next level promotion, the next level opportunity, the career trajectory that you don't yet feel ready for, right? These are the things that your heart and your soul desire in terms of your career.

Mhm.

They're uncomfortable because we don't know how to do them yet, right? So, when we're operating in our ceiling space, there's discomfort there. The bottom 10% the floor, the bottom cookie is your floor, and your floor represents the tasks and things that you could do with your eyes closed. You've been doing them for so long. They're so inherent to you. You know how to do them so well that it no longer makes sense for you to be the one doing them. Like, they're no longer serving you and you're no longer serving them. So, that is also a spot of discomfort when we're operating in our floor, because when we talk about operating on our floor, what we really mean is removing those tasks, so we are no longer doing them. So, the center is our comfort zone. The ice cream center, that's our comfort zone. Those are the tasks that we do well. They're where we're shining. They're where we are our best selves. Cool. We're happy and comfortable there. So, when we talk about raising the ceiling and raising the floor, the thing I love most about this concept is that pretty much everybody can relate, right? We know that we do things that we should no longer be doing, that really we can pass them on to somebody else. We know that we want growth, but we feel overwhelmed by it, because, gosh, how are we going to make time and room and space for that? The beauty of this model is that your floor is someone else's ceiling and your ceiling is somebody else's floor. So, if your superior gives you their floor, and it's a task you've never done before, that becomes your ceiling and allows you to level up. And if you give someone on your team a floor task that they've never done before, that allows them to level up, right? And so, it ends up being this like beautiful staircase where everybody levels up together, as long as everybody is taking on some ceiling and giving away some floor.

Hmm, boy, there's a lot to unpack there. I've got questions, but I don't want to interrupt you. Is there anything else you want us to know about the concept before I start, I don't want to say picking it apart, but I've been writing questions as you've been talking. Is there anything else we need to know before I dive into some questions?

No, well, I mean, I guess the thing that shifted for me about this was the letting go of part, right? Like I'm always focused on what's next. I always have big goals. I always have things I want to achieve, and I often find myself feeling overwhelmed by those things, right? Like, how am I going to achieve all of these big goals? How am I going to create all of this that I want for my career, for my life? And oftentimes, the answer for me is what are you going to let go of in order to create capacity to do that?

Yeah.

And I don't know that that's a conversation that we are often inherently having in our head, right? We're often having conversations about what's next, what's next, what's next, I think, at least in my case and in my experience, but we're not often asking ourselves, what do I need to let go of?

Yeah, I've heard it said so many different ways. A yes to something new is, whether you know it or not, a no to something old, or yeah, there's so many. For whatever reason, I've got an old manager in my head, where he was, I'm sorry, I'm gonna apologize in advance about this, but he was like, yeah, I'm not taking on any new friends. Like, I have enough friends. Like, your box scenario. Like, in order for me to take on some new friends, I gotta let go of some old friends, you know, type of thing. But the same concept, whether it's a, you know, I don't know, a volunteer activity, but we're talking about work and professional stuff. If I'm full right now and my boss wants me to take on something new, or the organization needs me to take on something new, and I'm already full, you're right. I gotta let go of something, by definition, or I'm just going to work more, and in most circumstances, that's not the right answer. So yeah, the letting go part is super, super important. Yeah, I really like about what you said, you worked yourself through this concept before working with others on it, and like you say, if you're a client of Laura's, you're gonna work through this concept. Do you have a story or, I mean, obviously we want to keep confidentiality here, but I'd love our listeners and myself, really, to hear like a very practical example, if you can think of one, of yeah, this person was dealing with this situation, it's causing consternation of some sort, and we put this concept practically into play, and here was the result of it. I'm kind of putting you on the spot, but does anything come to mind as I ask that?

Yeah, I think two things do. So, the first thing I'll say is that this concept connects to so many other relevant coaching conversations that evolve in natural leadership discussions, right? So, when we're talking with leaders who are having challenges with delegation, they are having challenges releasing control, right? Maybe they are the one who does the thing best, and nobody can do it as well as they can. That's like the definition of our floor, right? Nobody can do it as well as we can. We've been doing this forever, we can do it with our eyes shut, and so, it's a perfect conversation to be in about delegation. It's about, how do I create trust and the support structures and the training structures, and what the people on my team need in order to be successful in taking on my floor in the same way that I say I have this big thing I need to take on, I have to figure out what the support structures are that I need in order to be successful in doing it, you need support structures to achieve your ceiling, just like the people on your team need support structures to take on your floor. And so, that conversation about delegation has been, I think, really powerful for a lot of the people in my world. And the second way that I will say that this conversation has evolved is that it is a concept that is so easy to explain and to draw on a whiteboard and to share, that a lot of the leaders that I work with choose to use this as a way to have a conversation with the people on their team about their goals. Because they get to have a conversation about what is it that you want next? What is your ceiling? Talk to me about that, and then let me see if there's some things that are a part of my floor that makes sense for us to align there, right? I can give you some of my floor, and it aligns with what you'd like to create for your ceiling, and that's a win, win. And so, it has become a natural framework for team conversations and career conversations, which I love too, that there's just that natural framework to use to make those conversations more productive, more connected, more understandable.

Yeah, yeah. I'm just thinking about organizations, and I'm thinking, if this concept is put into play, it's always giving people an opportunity to grow. Because if I'm a leader in an organization and I need to take on new ceilings or raise my ceiling, and I can give other people around me, whether they're subordinates or colleagues or whatever, some of the floor stuff, I'm raising my roof, but they're, they're raising their ceiling as well. And so, it's this constant thing where everybody's growing at the same time. It's not just the leaders that are growing. Everybody gets to grow at the same time. I can see that as a huge benefit. Any downsides? Like, I'm trying to think this through. If everybody's moving up, you know, maybe more hiring is needed at a floor level, for instance, or something. I don't know. Any downside to this, or any unintended consequences that you've run into?

Yeah, it's a great point. I think the place where I have seen this concept kind of stall a little is when we have smaller teams, right? When we have less hierarchy, smaller teams. Maybe it's a solopreneur, right? If I look at myself as an example. So, who am I delegating my floor to? I don't have a staff of people who work for me, and that is a similarly interesting conversation, because it's not always about delegation, right? Your floor is not always about delegating it to a person. Your floor could be about automation, or your floor could be about AI integration, right? Like, how are we creating systems or support structures where we're no longer the person who has to do the thing? And I think what's interesting in my own life, and perhaps some of our audience can relate to this, but when you are working from home, when you're a smaller business, when you perhaps are a working parent, balancing raising kids and working and all of the family and household responsibilities and all that, you can look at your capacity box as your whole life.

Sure.

You don't have to look at it as just your career. You can look at it as everything. And so, for me, when I think about, I want to invest more time at work, I have these things that I want to spend an hour more a day on at work. So, what does that mean for me? What is part of my floor that I can delegate or that I can take off of my floor so that I can create the space for that? And that could be like asking my teenage kids to do the dishes, right?

Yup.

Or asking my husband or my kids to walk the dog, right? And so, it's like, what is it that I do with my eyes closed, that is just automated in my life, that I don't need to be the one doing anymore, that creates space?

Yeah. When you and I first got introduced to one another, you were just starting your new gig, you just started your own startup, Professional Box Breaker, and I think about this concept of raising the ceiling and raising the floor, and breaking boxes, and it all kind of goes together, Laura. It all makes sense to me.

There are a lot of boxes in my world.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. But it really does make sense. I'm thinking of, I mean, there's so many relatable things in what you just said. There's so many people that are working outside of their homes right now, whether they're working for a larger organization or working for themselves, and we're all trying to balance the whole thing, right? You know, it’s not even work life balance anymore. It's all one thing. We're all the same person, and we're all trying to figure it out together in our own unique ways, how to walk the dog, do the dishes, do the spreadsheet, lead people, give feedback. It all goes into the same thing on a daily basis, and we're all just trying to figure that out together. So, it’s extremely relatable, and for any part of your life, I think this is a really cool concept about ceiling and floor, and if you're expanding, you're actually giving other people an opportunity to expand also. I even think about your example with the kids, and whether it's the dishes or the dog, or whatever, it allows them to take ownership of certain activities where then now they're expanding themselves. And in a professional organization, it's the same exact thing, and there's so many things that happen there, right? It gives you an opportunity to coach, to model, to give people opportunities that they may not have gotten otherwise. For the leader themselves, the things that they can do on the floor with their eyes closed, there are some people, depending on your personality profile, where that may be hard to give up because of the whole control thing, but your concept gives them an opportunity to practice loosening their grip on the steering wheel, what that feels like, and that it's okay to do that, and there can be really big benefits to doing that. So, I’m digging the concept.

Just as you were talking, it's occurring to me, you know, there’s like a conversation about every piece of this that is unique, you know? And given the individual and the challenges that they're experiencing and the growth that they want, you just said kind of release the grip and I think there's a whole wealth of possibility and coaching partnership around that concept of releasing the grip, because it's not that simple. It's not just open your palm.

Yeah, just do it.

Just open your palm, let it go. It is about support structures, and it is about building trust. And it is about, you know, how do I know that, and I'm just going to use my kids as an example, how do I know that my kid is going to safely walk my dog around the neighborhood without my dog lunging into the street or meeting another dog or whatever the thing is that I'm worried about.

Yep.

How do I know that my kid's gonna do it well, in a way that I will be happy with and proud of? As his manager, leader, whatever. Mom. And so, that's a whole conversation in itself. What do I need to do in order to prepare my team to do the thing that I'm not going to do anymore? And once we create that structure, once we create that comfort, it makes the release of the grip realistic, makes it doable, less hard.

Yeah, yeah, all those things. Even in that example, any parent that's listening that has a dog, and a lot of us do, are thinking through that, going, I don't know how I'll do that, you know? And maybe other parents are like, yeah, he's kid's been doing it since he's six, you know? Whatever. And so again, that's where I go to the personality profile thing. But, yeah, we can never be 100% sure, right? But I think what you're saying is that you're building in this concept that allows people to at least be more sure. Like, there's some structure, and then there's freedom within the structure, it sounds like, as opposed to, yeah, just delegate, just let it go, whatever. And I don't know. That's oftentimes easier said than done. So, you're giving some structure to that. Laura, are there things about this concept that I haven't asked you that would be important either for you to get out or for our listeners to hear as we as we start to wrap up the conversation on raise the ceiling?

Yeah. I mean, I guess the other thing I'll mention is I said that the ice cream part of the cookie sandwich is the comfort zone, and that the cookie part, the floor and the ceiling are uncomfortable places, and so, I think we can also look at this from a conversation of inside versus outside the comfort zone, and that growth occurs outside the comfort zone. So, when we are raising the ceiling, when we are raising the floor, we are inevitably going to be uncomfortable. And so, I think that there's an acknowledgement that goes along with this concept that we're choosing discomfort. And there's something very empowering about choosing discomfort versus saying I'm uncomfortable and I don't know why, or this feels bad, this feels icky. There's just a lot of power in saying I'm choosing to feel uncomfortable, and I know what this is, and I know it's good for me.

That concept, I will tell you personally, I've been thinking a lot about lately and experimenting with it. I would say it in a little bit different way, just intentional discomfort. You're saying choosing discomfort. I would say intentional discomfort. Same thing, but I've been thinking a lot about it in a couple different ways, and experimenting with it from a health and wellness standpoint. So, yesterday morning, when I worked out and I was doing my squats and mountain climbers and all that, it didn't feel good. I didn't like any of it. I'm out of breath when I got up from my mountain climbers, I'm a little dizzy. Like, not good, but I was intentionally putting myself in that situation, so that when I'm out in the world, I do a lot of outdoor stuff and hiking up the mountain, I'm like, okay, and I can do it, and I can go further. But if I hadn't put myself in intentional discomfort, I may not have been able to do some of the things on the mountain, so to speak. But then also relationally, you know, I have two adult kids. Every now and again I have got to lean into the crucial conversations, which aren't always fun. They're not comfortable, maybe for me as the parent, or maybe for our kids, but at the same time, it's necessary, and that intentional discomfort makes maybe the next conversation easier, or there's modeling for them when they have to have crucial conversations. And anything that we just said can be from a business standpoint too. I can't tell you the amount of leaders that I've coached over the years, or when I was in corporate America, that I managed so many issues arrived when people avoided that discomfort, where, if they intentionally put themselves in discomfort way, oh, there just would have been so many unlocks that would have had the opportunity to have happened. And I'm thinking about so many examples are flooding into my head right now, where you go, no, no, we don't know how it's going to work out, but let's get intentionally uncomfortable, so that you know benefits arise from that. So, I don't know, you just opened some floodgates for me in my head, but what does that make you think of when you hear me say all that?

Yeah, I'll tell you, sometimes the ceiling for people is not about a new promotion, it's not about a new category level, it's not about new tasks, especially when we're talking about leaders. It's about being intentional, about how we are showing up, and that is the ceiling. That's the growth area, that's the stretch, that's the hard stuff, right? It is less about doing. We're so good at doing. We are so good at doing.

Oh, yeah, sure, yeah.

And sometimes that intentional being is the stretch, and I'll tell you what. It takes capacity. It requires us to have capacity in order to be intentional about how we're showing up. So, same concept applies, right? If your intentional being is your ceiling, then there's a whole lot of tasks that need to come off your floor to give you some space for that.

Oh, man, that right there, that’s the highlight that we need to cut. Meaning cut for tweeting, for LinkedIn, that quote needs to make it there. Yeah, intentional being. I've got a page worth of notes. Laura. This is good. You've allowed me to have some insights and part of the reason we do this podcast is so that people come up with their own insights as they listen to our conversation. Selfishly though, I seem to always have insights, and when you and I talk, that that often happens, so thank you for that.

Yeah, thank you, Jason. You gave me some of my own, for sure.

I think people may want to reach out to you. How do they do that? I mean, I know how to get you, but if somebody's listening and they want to either further this conversation or find out more about your concepts or anything, how do people find you?

Well, I'm on LinkedIn. Laura Michael. There are more than one of me out there, but.

No, there's only one you, Laura Michael. Come on.

And professionalboxbreaker.com. You can always reach me on my website.

Perfect. Well, Laura, I don't know, we've done this twice now. It's really rare, but, in fact, I don't think we've had anybody on three times, but my gosh.

Sounds like a ceiling.

Ha, there we go. There we go. I love that. Well, with that, I think it's a wrap. Laura, thank you so much for the conversation. Thanks for creating space for me today, for our listeners today, and just for doing what you're doing. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Jason, this is always a joy.

All right, listeners, that was another good one with Rewire coach and professional box breaker, Laura Michael. This concept of raise the ceiling. One of the insights that I got was this whole idea, if you're going to raise the ceiling, you need to raise your floor as well. And I just thought that that was good. Not just take on more things, do more things, but raise the floor as well. And what an opportunity that gives other people to delegate to other people, allowing people around you to expand and raise their own ceilings, as well. Then she brought in the concept of grace. Not only grace for ourselves, but grace for those around us. And then at the end there, where she talked about choosing discomfort, and just this whole idea of really creating intentional discomfort for ourselves, in order to be able to expand and raise the ceilings for ourselves. So, all good. I can't wait for this episode to drop and so I can re-listen to all this again. But as we say at the end of every episode of The Insight Interviews, it doesn't much matter what me as the host, what my insights were, but what really matters, dear listeners are, what insights did you have?

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