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Stacey Brown Randall is on a mission to help business owners avoid failure by teaching them how to generate referrals naturally—without manipulation, incentives, or even asking. Through her programs and VIP experiences, Stacey empowers business owners to attract clients authentically and sustainably.

She is a national speaker, host of the popular Roadmap to Referrals podcast, and has been featured in prominent publications such as Entrepreneur, Investor’s Business Daily, and Forbes. Stacey is also a multiple award-winning author of Generating Business Referrals Without Asking and is set to release her forthcoming book, which focuses on creating a referable client experience.

 

In this episode, Jason and Stacey discuss:

  • Importance of building strong relationships with referral sources
  • Strategies for creating surprise, delight, and top-of-mind awareness
  • Process of nurturing ideal client relationships for unsolicited referrals
  • Long-term benefits of consistent referral strategies for growth
  • Focus on process over outcomes by prioritizing others' needs

Key Takeaways:

  • The key to sustainable referrals lies in prioritizing authentic relationships over directly asking or self-promotion, fostering trust and goodwill.
  • A commitment to helping others naturally encourages referrals, as offering genuine solutions builds trust and inspires others to share your value.
  • Maintaining 5-7 personalized touch points annually creates opportunities to nurture relationships while surprising and delighting connections with thoughtful gestures.
  • Success in referrals depends on focusing on the process of building relationships, letting outcomes naturally unfold rather than tightly controlling results.
  • Identifying existing referral sources as low-hanging fruit, combined with consistent and patient application of strategies, paves the way for exponential growth over time.

“The number one thing you need to understand about referrals is that referrals aren't about you. You don't control the opportunity of when referrals will show up. What you control is the desire for that person to refer to you when they come across an opportunity.”

 - Stacey Brown Randall

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Listen to the podcast here:

 


Stacey Brown Randall- Surprise and Delight

Hello and welcome everybody to this episode of The Insight Interviews. I've got a guest today that when this person showed up on my schedule, I did not just one but two fist pumps, because this is a topic that has been near and dear to my heart ever since, gosh, I ran a lemonade stand when I was a kid, and that is the topic of referrals. So, our guest today is Stacey Brown Randall, and Stacey is an author, a speaker, a podcast host, a founder, a mom and a wife, but the thing that caught my attention is this. This is a quote that I read from LinkedIn. Here's what Stacey has to say about referrals. “You may have been taught that to receive referrals, you must ask for them. I believe the opposite. My clients are living proof that you don't need to ask, compensate, be overly promotional or manipulate to receive referrals”, and we're going to dig into all of those things. But Stacey, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

We're going to certainly dig into the topic of referrals, but before I do that, I'm going to ask you a question that we ask everybody that we've done for over 200 times now, and that is, as you and I engage one another today in August 2024, who or what comes to mind to you, Stacey, that you're particularly grateful for?

Oh my gosh. Are we gonna spend the whole time talking about that?

I don't know. Maybe.

That's not a short list.

Go for it.

But there's so many people that I am grateful for and things that I'm grateful for. Anyway, I think the first thing that came to mind when you said that, and it's probably a very cliché answer, but it is still the truth. It still would be what would probably always pop into my mind first, but I think that's my supportive husband, you know, he is just one of those guys that is really confident in himself and who he is. Most people refer to my husband as the nicest guy on the planet, and I'm always like, yeah, it's really annoying, because I'm always the bad guy with the kids. But he's just, you know, super supportive and we were just talking this morning, and he was like, you need to hit me with all your travel dates. And I was like, you mean all the dates where you get to do the taking of school and picking up from school and all the kid duty? And we have teenagers, and they should be driving and they're not, so it's still a lot. So yeah, he's just like, you know, go, do, I'll figure it out on my end, which, of course, I do the same for him as well. But that would be how I answer that question this moment. We'll see if he picks his shoes up when he comes home today.

Amazing. That's right, because it's all conditional, right?

It is all conditional.

He's great and he's serving and he's amazing and confident, but it's conditional. All right, let's get to referrals. I've read a bunch of your material. I've listened to a podcast or two. Read some scripts from a podcast or two of yours, and it is very, very compelling what you have to say about referrals., and there's so many people in our audience that are referral based. They live and die by the referrals. And I think you have a unique take on it. So, if you were to kind of condense down the main idea about how you approach referrals and how you help people, how would you do that, Stacey?

So, I think the easiest way to condense down what I believe, what I teach, and what is proven to work with my client's success is that for decades, we have been taught that if we want referrals, we have to do some pretty uncomfortable things to get the greatest type of client. Like the greatest type of client is a referred client and yet to get there, we're taught we have to do some pretty yucky things, like ask for them or pay for them, or be overly promotionally gimmicky, or just be networking all the time.

Yeah.

And the science of referral says that, no, you don't need to do those things. There are other things you need to do, but you really should never feel like you've got to compromise who you are or your relationships to be able to generate referrals for your business. And there are ways to go about getting lots of referrals, as many as you want, and do it in a way that's going to feel authentic to you and it's going to feel good.

Yeah, I'm already intrigued. I was coaching somebody this week who we had a conversation about how uncomfortable they were about the promotion and even bordering on compensation piece for referrals. And it was a lengthy discussion. And the bottom line of it was, really what you just mentioned, is he just felt kind of oopy. It just wasn't comfortable. And this is a very confident person, who is successful by a ton of measures, but it just wasn't hitting him right. And so, what you're saying is already resonating with me and I think a lot of our listeners. So that's the problem and the challenge. I know you view yourself as a contrarian when it comes to this topic. What is it that's different or what is it that you have found work that that the science says?

Yeah, and I think that's ultimately what it comes down to, it's like for decades, most of us when we had conversations or when we were thinking about trying to go out and get referrals, the majority of us, I always say it's 98.9% of people, it's a completely made up statistic, really do believe it's like almost 100% of folks, there are some unicorns out there that are really uncomfortable doing things that just don't resonate with who they are. And not that we can't push ourselves, and not that we can't get uncomfortable, but there are some things where the line is just drawn and we're just like that doesn't feel right and I always tell my clients says, when I'm teaching you strategies, or we're talking about language, or we're talking about what you're going to do to generate referrals, I don't think about how you're going to feel, I first think about, how is the receiver going to feel when this is being said to them or done to them? And then I back into how do we feel doing it? Because if you start with the other person in mind, it's usually a pretty good guide of what it ultimately should look like for you to be able to generate referrals. And so, that's what the science says, too. Like, the number one thing that when I tell people this, they're like, wait, what do you mean, because it's so different than anything they've ever heard, is that the number one thing you need to understand about, okay, there's a lot. I'm gonna say number one thing a lot, because there are a lot of number one things.

That's cool. Number one thing, 98.8%, number one thing five times. I see how you are, Stacey.

Okay, good. But one of the most important things for people understand is referrals aren't about you, and that slaps in the face of just about everything you've probably ever heard about referrals. And the idea is, if I believe referrals are about me, well then of course it makes sense that the tactic I would take is to ask you to get me some, right? It would make sense that the tactic I would then take would be to send out something in the mail that says, like, with a pack of goldfish, like a bag of goldfish, and say, I'm fishing for your referrals, which I see a lot in the real estate industry.

Yeah.

Bad. Don't do that. I don’t care what Etsy says, or Pinterest says. And so, the idea is, is that if, if you believe referrals are about you, then all you're focused on is paying attention to the actions you're going to take to receive them. But what the science says is that referrals aren't about you at all, and the moment a referral is being given, you have a referral source, which is what we call the human that's going to refer a new client to you, you have a referral source having a conversation, more than likely with someone else. And they're having a conversation, and that person has a problem, and your referral source goes, wait a minute. I can help you. I get to be the hero, because I can help you solve your problem. I know how to help you solve your problem, and how I'm going to help you solve your problem is by handing you off to Jason here as the solution provider. That's all you are when a referral is happening, is you're just the solution provider. The hero is the referral source. And in that moment that the referral source thinks to refer someone to you, what just happened before that was that someone had a problem, and they got to be the hero, and they're helping someone. So, if you can get your mindset around when I receive a referral, it's not because that person woke up and said, how do I help Jason grow his business today? Nobody says that actually when they wake up. That'd be great if people were like, hey, how do I help Stacey grow her business today? I would love that. Nobody does that.

Yeah, right.

We wake up thinking about ourselves, let's be honest. And so, when a referral is happening, it isn't because they're trying to grow your business, that's just a benefit. What they're doing is helping someone else, and that is, when you pay attention to what's happening in the brain, it's the happiness trifecta, so that's like the science of what's happening in the brain at that referral source when they're helping someone else by referring them to you, right? The first piece of science that comes into play is the brain science of what's happening with our happiness trifecta, and that's the releasing of dopamine and its cousins of the feel-good chemicals, and that is produced by helping someone else.

Right on.

Then you move into the psychology of trust, of that relationship they have with you, and then we move into behavioral economics. And those are the pieces. And then there's a little bit of layering in there, the science of social networks of what this looks like to create a strategy in your business to generate referrals consistently. But that's the first thing people need to understand. It's not about you. So don't have a tactic that is focused on you. Have tactics and strategies and things that you do that are focused on the relationship you have with the referral source, because you don't control opportunity of when referrals will show up. What you control is desire for that person to refer to you when they come across the opportunity. And I know everybody wants to control the opportunity, because then you get to control the predictability, and it's everything, right? But you just don't. Not the real referrals when somebody really has a problem and actually wants to talk about solving it and maybe spending some money to solve the problem. That's a real referral. Someone shows up, they've been connected to you they trust you and get a need identified, and at least they're willing to talk about it. That's when those best clients show up, because they're like, here, Jason, just take my money and solve all my problems. That happens when they've been really referred, which means they have a problem. And so, people just don't walk around like just creating those opportunities, you only control the desire that the person refers to you when the opportunity presents itself.

I have 49 questions based on what you just said.

Let's do it. Hit me with them.

There's so many paths I can go down. All right, you ended with you don't control the opportunity, you control the desire. Talk to me a little bit more about that. When you say you control the desire, how do we do that?

That's the relationship that you have with your referral source, right? Let's take real estate agents, because it's a fun example to pick on, right? And you're in Maryland, right?

Yep.

Is that what you told me? Okay. How many real estate agents are there in Maryland? If you just had a guess, and maybe you're gonna be really wrong.

Oh, I mean, I'm certain there's 1000s. Yeah, I don't know the number, obviously.

Thousands, for sure. Same in Charlotte, right? It's 1000s, right? And the average person, from some statistics I've read, knows about 12 people who are real estate agents, right? So, there's lots of people I could refer to, but why do I refer to the one agent that I do? And that's desire. It's the desire that I have to refer to the agent that I do refer to, and that is the relationship we have. And most people are like, oh, the relationship we have is based on how good I am as a real estate agent. Actually, it's not. It's really based on the fact that I expect you to be a good agent, or I would expect you to be out of business,

The ticket to the game.

I assume you're a good bit I assume you're a good agent, until you prove me wrong.

Yep, yep.

It's actually the relationship we have that isn't about how great you are as an agent, and everything to do with the relationship we have that kind of transcends the how good you are and goes from professional and in some levels, personal. This isn't like you're grabbing a beer with everybody every month, because nobody has time for that, but it's a little bit more than just most people are, like, they got to know how great I am. Nobody cares. They assume you're great. This is about you maintaining a relationship that's focused more on them than it is on you. And then you've got that desire piece in place, where they'll have the desire to refer to you, not the 11 other or 1000s of other agents they could refer to.

Okay, so let's continue down this path. This is good. I asked you a question about not controlling the opportunity but controlling the desire. What I heard was, you know, it's about relationship. It's not about how skillful in this example, as a realtor you are, because that's expected. That's a ticket to the game. So, I feel like I know some of these answers, but I feel like I have such an opportunity to talk to you about this, that I want to know what your answers are around, okay, great. Help me with the relationship piece, not to just become friends with somebody and want to go to a ball game with them but create the type of relationship where those referrals are pouring in.

Yeah. So, this is the thing that people always over complicate, which is that should be good. Everybody should be like, oh, good. It's not going to be complicated, right? It doesn't mean it's as easy as, let's do one like, one time, once a year, and then I'll ghost you for the 11 other months a year, right? It's not that either. What I like to talk to people and have people understand is what we call it in my business. So, when I am working with a client and they're like, hey, you've identified a group of referral sources, these are people who have referred you, right? That's a very specific group of people, they are existing referral sources, they've referred you in the past, even if the past was yesterday or a couple of years ago. And we create what's called a touch point plan, or a referral plan of outreach, and in that plan, like, I know people's brains are going like, okay, but what are the logistics of it, right? Like, the idea is that it's five to seven touch points that happen over the course of 12 months. There has to be variety to what you do. Yes, you can do this on a shoestring budget, but I think it's really important for people to understand what it's not. So, we build things around what's going to actually have someone think about referring you. So, there's two pieces to this. It is where behavioral economics for us comes into place, and there's a framework that we build out what these touch points, these five to seven touch points are going to look like when we're working with our clients. And so, within that, I always tell folks, okay, here's what it's not, right? It's not your newsletter. That newsletter you send out once a week or once a month is great. I've got one. You probably have one. That's fabulous, but that's not what we consider actually building relationship, because we want to stay top of mind. This is not about keeping in touch, and those are two very different things in terms of what we do. So, when we have these five to seven touch points in a year that have to keep us top of mind, it's not the newsletter. You can have it. Great. You can have one. I'm not saying don’t have one. I am saying don't count it as one of the five to seven ways that you that you're going to stay connected. Okay, you also can't do the same thing over and over again. This isn't like, take everyone to coffee every single month. Nobody, including you, has time for that. So there has to be this level of variety. When we think about behavioral economics, there needs to be a surprise and delight factor, like they can't know what's coming. That's kind of the point. But variety means we also don't just send a card for every major holiday. There's no surprise factor in that. There's no delight factor in that after a while. And so, here's the thing. Most people are like, okay, so then what are my five to seven touch points? And I'm always like, that is really dictated by who your referral sources are, and then what's authentic to you? And so, when I build out plans with my clients, they don't ever look the same. There are a few things I teach my clients that we need to do, but other than that, they don't look the same, right? They're going to fall in different categories. They're going to be based on different personalities. Different industries are going to do different things, and so it's going to look different, and it's going to be custom to what your referral sources ultimately need from you. But the thing that makes these touch points work, because it's not just let me send you a pie at Thanksgiving. I feel like I'm picking on my real estate agents again but let me just send you a pie at Thanksgiving. While that's great, the thing that actually makes the five to seven touch points that my clients will do is then what we call our secret sauce, and that's the language that we use when we are ultimately delivering on those five to seven touch points. And they're not all gifts. They can't all be gifts, right? Because then that's weird. If I got seven gifts from you in a year, I'd be like, that is weird. I'm don’t even get seven gifts from my own husband.

But he's such a great guy.

But he is the nicest guy. I didn't say great gift giver. I said nicest guy.

So, I'm intrigued, though. I'm intrigued because I wrote down, you know, top of mind, versus keeping in touch, you're talking about your own language, talking about the referral source. Keep on going, because I do want to get to a point where, like, there's some examples. I want to see and touch it and feel it a little bit more than I am right now. So, take me like a kindergartner down this road.

So, here's a great example for you to consider. And this is a good one, because I know you'll be able to see it with your mind's eye. So, when I started my business, and I was figuring out this referral strategy that I now solely teach to my clients, I started my second business as a productivity and business coach. I had had a business failure in the past, and that business, I made it for four years, and then failed. I found myself back in corporate America. Can we not go down this path again? So, I started my second business. I was like, I just don't want to fail.

That's kind of a good starting point.

Yeah, so I was like, okay, I'm going to make sure that I figure out this referrals piece for my own business, and I didn't know what I was doing, I just refused to ask or compensate or be gimmicky and promotional. It's not how I wanted to show up in the marketplace. And so, I started throwing spaghetti on the wall. And then in my first year in business, I got 112 referrals that I didn't ask for. And I was like, okay, well, I’m on to something. And my clients figured out, you know, now I was coaching them on taming their inbox, they very quickly figured out, wait, what are you doing to grow? And that forced me to create this system. I had to reverse engineer it so I could teach it to them. And now I've been doing that for 11 years. But early on, when I was a productivity and business coach, and I was getting those 100 plus referrals every year, you have to start paying attention to who your referral sources are. So, I was a productivity and business coach, and my people were business owners who were also parents, because that's who I was.

Sure.

And the smaller the business, the better, right? I love my solopreneurs, those with only five people, 10 people, they just they got a unique, special place for me in my heart. It doesn't mean I don't work with clients who have more employees in five or 10 or just themselves, but that's who I was coaching at the time.

Sure.

But I noticed that the top, and so this is just the top line of who my referral sources were, I didn't get 112 referrals from three people, right? So obviously I was cultivating relationships and many people referring me. And so, I looked at the top line of who my referral sources were, and I realized, not surprising in my situation, they mirrored who my clients were. Even if they weren't a client of mine, they were business owners who were also parents. So as part of my touch point plan, one of my touch points was to recognize Mother's Day and Father's Day. Nobody expedcts to hear from a business coach right on Mother's Day or Father's Day.

Yep.

And what I did, so here's, here's the danger with me using this example, it's a gift example, but please hear me say you cannot do a bunch of gifts because that's weird.

Yeah, right.

We use variety and but in this example, because I know you can visualize it. For Mother's Day, I sent a Wonder Woman water bottle and did something different For Father's Day, my husband was like, no one is gonna drink out of a Batman or a Superman water bottle, so figure something else out. But for this example, it's for Mother's Day, and I sent a Wonder Woman water bottle.

Sure.

It was very unique to who they are, to letting them know that I see them, right? And that I recognize a piece of them. And as you can imagine, there are pictures taken of that water bottle placed on social media later. I get an email or a text message a year later, being like, my daughter's had my water bottle for months now. Where do I get another one? I'm like, let me just send you one. There are $10.

Sure, sure.

But it was that ability to recognize who are my referral sources. It wasn't all of my referral sources. I looked at my top group, and I figured out, how can I show up and be different and let them know that I see them and I appreciate them, and so that's what the water bottle served, being a Wonder Woman water bottle. That doesn't mean everybody listening to this episode right now is supposed to go recognize Mother's Day and Father's Right, right? That's

That was right for you. I'm hearing you your situation and your clients. It was very personalized.

It was. But here's the thing, a few years later, I lost my father unexpectedly, and I never recognized Mother's Day and Father's Day again, because that year after losing him, it was just too hard. I just didn't want to. And then I changed the plan. I just picked a different touch point for it and the plan, and that changed into something else. And so, it can also evolve, right? You're not stuck with the same thing every year, or even the same time frame in terms of your touch point.

Got it. Okay. That makes, that makes a Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. So, you've used a lot of examples as realtors, we have a lot of mortgage bankers that are also clients of ours, and I want to ask you a specific question, but it could be for realtors or mortgage bank, or really, anybody gets referrals, but I'm just going to say a mortgage banker, for the purposes of the of the question. What you're saying so far, it makes a ton of sense. There are industries, and I think mortgage and real estate, because of technology and because of the way it's all priced out, it becomes more and more commoditized over time, and there's so many of them, kind of like you alluded to earlier when you asked me the question about how many realtors are in your in your state, that, gosh, there might be 100 other realtors that are sending out Wonder Woman water bottles, for example. And I'm sure there's tons of industries that are like that, right? That it's just like, okay, great, but I'm receiving gifts from all kinds of different places, like, so what do you do about that? Like, I'm sure you've run into that question before.

I think it's hilarious that you think is happening that much. People have the intention but they don't always have the follow through. And they may do it one year, and then they completely get busy and follow up and don't do it the next year. But here's the thing I want people to understand, because when I'm working with someone, their question is always, well, if I'm doing that and somebody else is doing that, aren't we doing the same thing? And then, like, I'm not teaching you the best slogan or ad to put on a billboard driving down the interstate that then I can only teach it to one agent, or one mortgage broker in your area. Your referral sources are always yours, right? And so, you're probably going to be the only one that's doing those kind of things for them and staying top of mind in that way, and then once you're doing that, if they did have a couple of other realtors or mortgage brokers or whomever that maybe they considered referring to, those names are going to quickly fall off as they just kind of focus on you.

Yep.

So, is it in the realm of possibility that one person could get two Wonder Woman water bottles from two different loan officers in one year? Yes, anything's in the realm of possibility. Is it happening? Not really.

No, you're singing off the same sheet of music that I typically do, and said another way might be, and we'll see how you resonate with this is, when you do the activities that you're talking about consistently, and I think that's an important piece, is consistently, because you mentioned, yeah, I might get fired up after I listen to this woman Stacey or read her book, but then I kind of tail off. And, boy, I see that often. Then then the second part of that equation is you do it consistently over a long period of time, not a year, not two years, but like a long period of time, that just seems to always win the game. Consistency over a long period of time with the types of things that you're talking about, like, to the degree that you're talking about it. I just see that that wins, because most competitors of yours in whatever industry that you're in, they're just not willing to be consistent over a long period of time. I don't know. How do you react to that?

It's the same way with being consistent about updating your database. Like some people are like, I'm going to be consistent about this, and some people are like, I got to build this as a habit every 70 days, because I keep falling off the wagon. But yes, I mean, some of my best case studies that I love to talk about are the people who have consistently done the strategies. And here's the thing that I want people understand. What we talked about is how we take care of our existing referral sources. That is one of 19 strategies that I teach, right? And there's other strategies that are that come off of that one strategy because of our existing referral sources, but there's an ecosystem of where referrals are hanging out in your business, and there's lots of ways to be able to generate referrals, not just from people who've referred you in the past. But some of my best case studies are the people that we've been tracking their referrals received. So, like I have one client, Catherine, who, before she ever met me, received 12 referrals in a year. It's not bad. It's nothing to sneeze at. It's also not very impressive for what she wanted. So one of the things we talk about is our goal with every client that we work with is to double, triple or quadruple their referrals and their first year. We can do it in 90 days. We will. But our goal is to make sure that happens in the first year. There are components and a formula that goes into whether or not that's possible, and that's why there's actually an application process to work with me. But the idea there is that if I can take her from 12 and get it to 24 or get it to 36, like now we're talking doubling, tripling. Major changes here can happen. We got her to 40 referrals in her first year. So, she earned 12 and we got her to 40. Well, yeah, that was seven years ago. Last year and every year she consistently gets that number of referrals, but last year she had 85. So, she went from 40 referrals in her first year, and then she got 52 I think it was, and then she got in the high 50s, and then she got like 63 and then she got 67 the next year. These are brand new referrals every year, and it was growing. Then she got 75 and she told me, this was, I guess, 2022, she got 75 referrals. She was like, I got too many. I think I want to pair back. And then last year, she got 85. I'm like, how'd that go for you? She was like, that didn't really work the way I had planned. So, we did some different things this year to help her get less, but a different area she wanted to focus on.

I understand.

The consistency, like that should be the motivating factor, but she's still doing the work.

Don't you find in your success story, right there, don't you find Stacey that there's a snowball effect that happens? I saw it in my mortgage banking years where I got to, say similar to where your client was, then you can't stop it. You've done this consistently over a long period of time with doing the unique things that you're talking about now, you've got referrals coming from everywhere, and it's almost like you can't stop it. And that's where I think things start to get fun for a business or a salesperson or somebody that runs a practice. Like, that's where I think things start to get pretty fun. Now, you still have to do the work, and you have to do it consistently over a long period of time.

But fun and easy. Like, that's the thing that Catherine would tell you. I mean, definitely that doesn't mean, like, every year that she's been getting referrals it's been all sunshine and rainbows.

It never is.

And that has sometimes nothing to do with referrals. It has everything to do with staffing or how the business is, or what's happening in the marketplace, or what's happening legally. Like, there's a lot of changes that are constantly external factors, but it does make things easier if you're like, I was talking to someone the other day that's joining my coaching program, and I was like, this is the thing I need you to do. I need you to stop white knuckling this process. I need you to let go and stop being so focused on the outcome and just do the work with the right intentionality and the right mindset and trust that the process will work and come into these relationships you're developing and building with the other person in mind first, knowing that referrals will take care of themselves, because we're going to do the things that focus on the science of what makes referrals happen. I was like, but you got to release your grip. You cannot white knuckle this to death, because when you do, you're actually going to take out all the potential that is there. Like you're gonna squeeze it out, and there won't be what you should be able to have and enjoy and be able to see happen. So, there is that piece of understanding that sometimes we just get so focused on the outcome. we're like, I gotta make this happen. I'm like, if you can see white knuckles, you're holding on too tight, and you've got to be able to release it. Because in the process I teach, we're about putting the other person first., long before we're worried about what comes back and around to you. And it's for the people who can do that that I see the greatest success.


Yeah, they're the ones that win. Isn't what you're saying, Stacey, a philosophy for all aspects of life? I mean, come on. You know, focus on the process, not the results, put the other person before yourself. Like these are tenants, where I don't care if you're trying to be a good parent, a good friend, a good son, daughter, businessperson, salesperson, business owner, like, what you're talking about, are tenants in life. And I just see it over and over again, what you're talking about. Gripping the steering wheel too hard in any aspect of your life typically doesn't work out as well as when you kind of hold it with a looser grip or an open hand.

Yeah, with anything and everything.

Yeah.

Most definitely.

I feel like we could talk for a few hours, but we're not going to do that today, because that's not the format of our show. So, I'll start to kind of put us on the off ramp of our conversation here, Stacey. So, any particular story stick out to you? You've given us some examples of some success stories of some of your clients, but any particular story that you'd like to relay that you haven't relayed already, as we kind of finish up here?

Yeah, so I would say, that here's the thing I want everyone to feel empowered about after listening to this, right? Not only that it's possible, and the case studies are awesome, and you know how this works. It's based on science, and there's a control factor and that kind of stuff that you can really focus on. The number one thing that I think business owners need to do, no matter what, is to figure out who is referring to them now, because that is your business's lowest hanging fruit for how you can finish this year strong or start next year strong and have a great 2025, is knowing who's referring me now, identifying that process. I talk about it my book. I talk about on the podcast. There's like, free resources on my website about it. Like, being able to identify who refers you now is such a game changer when you see their names in black and white. To be like, okay, these are my existing referrals. Have I talked to these people in six months? Who am I ghosting unintentionally? Who am I ghosting? That is such an empowering exercise that business owners should go through. And for me, it's a starting point of all my clients. Identify if you have referral sources. If you don't, we can solve that. We have a strategy to solve that. Different if you do have referral sources, what that ultimately looks like for you, right? Is the question you have to ask yourself, which is, these people take care of my business. Do I believe I should do something different to take care of our relationship and take care of them?

Yeah.

That is your low hanging fruit. Someone who's already shown a propensity to refer you is more likely to refer to you again, versus someone who's never done it. So, that's the thing I want people to hear is don't over complicate this process. Figure out if you have referral sources now, right? And then you can decide if you want to get to work.

Don't over complicate it. Another tenant in life from Stacey. Here's what I would say, doing a high level review of your book, listening to some of your podcasts, listening to you today, what I would say to our listeners is, if your business is based on referrals, which most of our listeners, that is the case, and you feel like you need a reset, a refresh, just a new way of looking at things you, I highly suggest you get in touch with Stacey. Grab her book. It's a very, very best-selling book on Amazon. We have the authority here, in my opinion, when it comes to referrals. I mean that. Or look her up online and follow her steps. So, as we kind of end our conversation here, Stacey, I do think we'll have people that want to reach out to you. What's the easiest and best way to make that happen?


Yeah, so my two favorite social media platforms for those who just prefer to like, follow and connect, LinkedIn and Instagram. You can find me at Stacey Brown Randall. Make sure you spell Stacey with an E, but my home base is my website. There is so much information available at StaceyBrownRandall.com. You'll find out about the book generating business referrals without asking, my podcast road map to referrals. Just like you, we drop a new episode every Tuesday. So, there is more than enough information out there for people to dip their toes in and be like, okay, do I agree with the philosophy? Am I going to put in the work? Long before anybody ever makes the decision that they want to work with me or not, is it just so much information for people to start digging into as they make that decision, like, do I want to do more or not? So yeah, the podcast, the book, the website, social media, we got it all covered.

All kinds of places to dig in. Well, Stacey Brown Randall, thank you very much for your expertise. Thanks for being on the show. I hope a ton of people reach out to you as a result of this. I know to me personally, I have a page worth of notes here that I'm going to be reviewing, and we definitely appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.

Oh, it was my pleasure.

So many insights from Stacey Brown Randall. What did I star here? Basically, the thing that she first said and the thing that was a thread through our conversation is start with the other person in mind. You know, very often when it comes to the topic of referrals, or getting referrals, or asking for referrals, there is a tendency to go, okay, this is about me. I need to go get or obtain or receive as many referrals as possible, but when you start with the other person in mind and think of yourself as a solution provider, boy, things just work out better. Another insight that I had was to focus with a loose grip, by the way. Focus on the process and not the results and just that consistency over a long period of time. You know, rarely do I do this, but with this particular guest, I think that the point of entry and the risk is so low to get in touch with her and try out her program, and we don't have any affiliate relationship or anything, I just believe in what she's doing. If you are listening to this and your business is based on referrals, I do recommend that you get a hold of Stacey Brown Randall. But those were the insights that I had, and as we end every episode of The Insight Interviews, it doesn't much matter what me as the host, what my insights were, but what really matters is, what insights did you have?

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