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About Matthew Hudson: He is a passionate leader and speaker, devoted husband, and loving father of two kids and two dogs.  Matthew is also an outdoor enthusiast and adventure athlete.  He is a founder of multiple businesses, behavioral science junky, and a believer that the human journey is meant to be the discovery of magic. 

 

In this episode, Steve and Matthew discuss:

  • Being there for people in their pain 
  • Accepting hardship as part of the journey
  • The importance of truth in our lives
  • Saying the truth with love

Key Takeaways:

  • Being there for people in their pain is one of the most meaningful things we can do. It allows us to validate people’s feelings, give them a new perspective on seeing their problems, and remind them that the pain doesn’t define them. 
  • Hardship is a part of our journey; it’s a piece of the puzzle that builds up to our whole human experience. When we start to accept it as a part of our lives and dispose of reactionary judgments, we’ll start to see the beauty in those moments too. 
  • You can’t have love, freedom, or joy without truth. You derail others’ journeys and also your own when you don’t embrace the truth. When we don’t tell the truth, we rob ourselves and others of the beauty of our journey. 
  • Truth can be communicated with love, in fact, it must be done so every single time. Truth said without love is often too bitter. We need to say the truth from the perspective of wanting the person to flourish and grow and without any negative intention.

 

“If we can learn to actually love all of the experiences, as hard as it is in the moment, we can gain just a little bit of perspective. We start to see the beauty in that too.”

 - Matthew Hudson

Connect with Matthew Hudson:

 

Connect with Steve and Jason:

 

Listen to the podcast here:

Matthew Hudson- The Magic of The Journey

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Insight interviews. This is your host, Steve Scanlon. And I, you know, I have a really, I was gonna even say, I've got this really cool guest on today. I don't, I've really got to wrestle for a better adjective than cool. You know, again, I'm putting pressure on the poor guy. But, I really think this is going to be quite a unique experience. This is going to be less of a podcast episode and more of a journey, best I can tell. So, look, you guys can read the show notes, and we're going to certainly good to hear from him. But Matt Hudson, say hi to our little podcast world.

Hello, podcasters. Steve, thanks for the invitation. It's something I've been really looking forward to.

Yeah. Well, I from time to time, Matt, we get, you know, I had I a shout out from the crowd, like one of our devout listeners, and by the way, someone I interviewed, which is, you know, Bruce, our friend, Bruce Jordan, he goes, I got a guy for you. And you know, when people tell me that, that's like, trying to set me up on a blind date, right? I'm like, come on, Bruce. And then you and I had this wonderful conversation, and I walked off, and I was like, I walked around in the streets for like, a half an hour, just, you know, not even sure where I was after I talked to you.

So well, the downside might be I shared everything already in our conversation, and I got nothing left. But we'll find out.

Somehow, I'm thinking with who you are nothing left is never an option.

Just ask my wife.

Oh, my gosh, I just can't wait to dive into what you do. So hey, look, before we even dive in. And I can tell this is already something that you practice. But before we get into kind of some of the particulars, I just want to know, what you're grateful for today?

Oh, my gosh, boy, I am grateful for somebody that I work with, who asked me to lunch, of course, I bought, and he just shared his heart and his family's pain with me, and I got to be with him for two hours in support of him, and to guide them a little bit on maybe some steps to take. And I'm grateful for an incredible team of people that I have who want to move at the pace that I move and are willing to have really powerful, hard conversations that make us amazing. So, it today has been an incredible day.

Wow. Wow. You know, it's really, you know, usually I don't go into this kind of rabbit hole with that question. But I gotta ask, like, interesting. I mentioned gratitude, and you brought up actually the willingness to be with someone, and the ability to be with somebody in their pain and suffering. That's pretty cool.

I mean, I think it's some of the most special things that we get to do, provided that we don't get caught in their pain. And it's definitely a mistake that I've made on my journey. And because it's the mistake that I've made, it's one of the gifts I would say, or at least skills that I've developed over the years of being able to help people gain a little bit of objectivity on where their pain is actually coming from, and not letting that pain actually be them. And, you know, I think it's just one of the things that I enjoy the most of kind of helping people wake up to the magic that's around us all the time that we just can't see, because we get so wrapped up in the things that seem so hard. So, I don't know if there's much more meaningful thing that I get to do.

Wow, that we are so much more than our pain, and our pain is absolutely a part of who we are. Did I hear that right?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think as you know, I've found, and you and I've talked a little bit about the journey that I've been on, particularly over the last 100 days, which we couldn't get to go too deep into, but that what I found is that a lot of times most recently in particular, the words that I'm using have a tendency to be understood, but at such a surface level. Not because other people aren't smart, but because they just haven't been willing to dive so deep into the experiences the meaning of the words.
                                                                                                       
"And for me when I say something like, or the affirmation of what you just said, which is, the pain is part of who we are, how I want to respond is to love the whole experience of being human, and it is our judgment that causes deeper pain. It's the expectation that it's not supposed to be this way. And of course, it is. That's part of the journey. And so, if we can learn to actually love all of the experiences, as hard as it is in the moment, because the ego takes to so deeply, so quickly down that path that that's the only thing that we can see. We can gain just a little bit of perspective. Oh, my gosh, we start to see the beauty in that too."

Unbelievable. I feel like we could just sign off now. Okay, you guys go. Thank you have a good day. I told you we'll get it done quickly. Yeah, we're working, you know, you know, we own a coaching platform. And we have many coaches around the country, and we're all working with people specifically in financial services, and real estate and mortgage, etc. and there's a lot of pain out there, and we get to hear about it. And you just really triggered me and had gave me an insight like, we magnify it by the expectation that we shouldn't have this.

Yeah.

And I hear you are going, of course, you should, like whoever said that like, right? And so does it get magnified by this idea that we have this discrepancy between what we think we shouldn't be feeling and what we're actually feeling? And would we would we mitigate that some through an understanding and acceptance of is what it is, and it's okay. Am I saying that right?

I mean if it's yours, of course, it's right. And yes, I also agree, and I'll give your audience if I haven't already, given them three or four reasons to judge me one more, I hate social media. I absolutely despise it. I think it is an unbelievably beautiful and valuable tool that we are so dumb with, and that social media, to me, is maybe the mechanism that was supposed to be created, so that this crescendo of expectation of perfection rises in our society, to realize the insanity of it. And where we are with social media, I mean the amount of depression and the amount of suicides and, and the number of people that are getting divorced, because they don't look as sexy as the other person who took that photo and then photoshopped it for six hours, I mean, what we're doing as a humanity is absolutely crazy. And the things that we're doing in our society, and maybe across humanity across the world, it is reinforcing this expectation that the aim is actually perfection. That the aim is actually that we're supposed to be like that guy. That guy isn't like that guy. And, and instead, let's love the humanity. Let's love the perfection with which we were born, which is our warts and baldness, and you know, whoever and whatever we are, along with the pain and the discovery and the separation and the connection and all of the experience. And when we start to see it for, this is just my belief, when we start to see it for what it is, that it's this playground that was created for us to discover the magic, and every single aspect of the experience is part of the magic, including our pain, including being depressed and eating a gallon of ice cream and a bag of potato chips and watching reruns for seven straight hours, like awesome, love it. I frickin’ love Seinfeld, and Friends and all of the other reruns. And so, I think that there's, there's so much pain in our world that is created, that is because of an expectation that we're supposed to be a thing that our society is perpetuating. That society thinks that we're supposed to be. And the truth is that when we break it down to the individual level, none of us actually believe that's true. And none of us want that for each other. And yet, we don't know how to break the cycle. And hopefully conversations like this are just helping individuals one by one, break the cycle, and maybe we'll do a lot of good and have a big ripple effect.

Yeah, I had all these questions for you. And I'm like going, there's just no way I'm gonna get to all my questions. Dang it. I just so want to jump on that and go, anyway. Well, I'll tell you what, let's we'll get back to that. Because I maybe in my own brain needs some time to just let that sit for a second. Would you do us a favor? Like, you know, look, we're already quite a few minutes into this thing. Who the heck are you? Like, I can read your bio. And I can tell people and by the way, we have show notes and people can maybe go out there and go who's not handsome? Like I think it's really cool to just if you could and I know it's difficult to synthesize this right, Matt, but tell us in just a few minutes if you could like what's your journey about where are you? What do you do? Vocationally. Tell us about you personally, just like, give us the thumbnail of Matt Hudson as you see it just so that people go oh, that's who the heck's talking and kind of where he is and what he does and whatnot.

Yeah, I'll give you a little bit of an esoteric and then maybe some just the, you know, the traditional, you know, I'm a farm kid that grew up in an island in Washington. 20 mile long seven mile wide island on 160 acre farm a mile from the beach. I grew up like Tom Sawyer or Huck Finn, there were 900 people on the island. I had my first jobs working in the fields when I was six, maybe. I grew up on motorcycles and horses and had guns and tractors. And I, as I look back on it, Steve, I had the most incredible childhood. Like, how could you create a better playground for a human being, to see and discover and live in the magic? And yet, I also had, you know, my own pain of the journey of my parents getting divorced and moving off the island to live with my dad, because he was in pain all the time and cried every time I talked to him over the phone, and I couldn't help but to, for him to be alone any longer and for me to make the decision to move and I think that began my path of martyrdom, quite frankly, of doing things for other people to solve their pain. And, you know, I went to college, I was a high level baseball player, I lived over in Europe, I've started six different businesses, four of them had been very successful and lots of fun. The other two didn't lose money, but they didn't operate with a level of excellence that I wanted, and I wasn't passionate about them. And I thought it was the thing I was supposed to do. I am married to the love of my life. I have two absolutely incredible children that are 15 and now 19 years old. My daughter is a sophomore in college at 19, just turned 19. And I'm a dog lover. I don't understand cat people. So, I'm sorry for you people that I just offended. I'm a dog people guy. And you know, I'm one of those guys that I very much believe we should always be in action even if that action is sitting still. And I know that sounds like a ridiculous oxymoron. And I just don't know how to do it any other way. I talk fast. I think fast. I want to do lots of stuff all at the same time. I believe in excellence, and I believe this world is supposed to be amazing, and I believe we're supposed to love people. And, and man, there's so many layers of ego that I have spent, you know, really the last five years of my life, in particular it with great intention and awareness, and 25 years of my adult life, maybe not so aware, but intuiting of peeling back the layers and learning to have a relationship with it, where I could find peace and freedom and joy on my journey being human, while loving other humans and not worrying what they thought. And so, I become a speaker and a writer, and I'm also a coach. And man, I just, I literally now every day wake up curious, and literally seeing the magic around us at all times. And I fail miserably every day as well, by getting trapped in the matrix because my ego creeps back in a moment and I do dumb stuff. So, I'm just a dude on the journey and working hard every day.

And you said there was some of the nuts and bolts like, you know, what are some of the businesses you're involved in today, just again, not that maybe those things don't matter as much.

I've got a real estate company in Denver, Colorado home Realty, we've got about 120 agents in the company, and we were the top workplaces in Colorado for 2021, which was kind of a nice little feather in the cap. I've got a business partner whose name is Adam, and he and I own a mortgage business together called Modern Mortgage, also in Denver. We've got a building company, residential construction custom home building company in Texas, just north of the Austin area. And then I'm also a seed investor in a pretty interesting technology. I’ll call it kind of a social media buster, that I ended one of the brightest guys I know ideated, about four and a half years ago had been working on has now built a super talented team, and will probably be launching the technology sometime q1 of next year.

Wow. Wow. Very cool. That's a lot. See, I can ask you about any one of the businesses I can ask you about suddenly what you called the esoteric stuff. If it's okay to ask you this since you're so, you know, here that openness and transparency are paramount to discovering the truth, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, and I certainly would not ever want any of my guests to feel vulnerable. Like one of the things that's just going through my mind is I'd like to hear what failures have you had if you're willing to share that have made you as a result of that failure who you are today?

Oh, man, such a great question. I feel like for me, I believe that some of the core human aims on whatever this journey is in this reality are joy, love and freedom. I think that's that the state that we're trying to achieve actually is an emotional state. And that the older we get, the more experience that we have, the more that we realize that you know the red Corvette or Ferrari or the bigger house or the more money in the bank or what have you, does not actually give us more freedom, more joy, more love, because the path by which we got there was so oppressive, so constricting, and it was just the wrong motivations. Now, can you have more fun with lots of money? Sure, absolutely. And so, but the word that you used that I believe is the foundational ingredient in the achievement of and I believe, must be present, otherwise you cannot have joy, love or freedom is the word truth. Truth is our number one value as an organization and our real estate company. It is a word that is an aspirational word. It is to me a word that is also a nonnegotiable word. It is not a word with which I am perfect every day, I am pretty close to perfect in my life now, however, using that word, and embracing the concepts of that word, because I know that I derail my own journey and others journeys, when I am not fully truthful. Now, where I can own that I am perfect is I never lie, but I sometimes don't tell all the truth. And so, going back to your question, what is the biggest lesson that I've learned? It is all the ways in which I didn't tell the truth. And some of the ways in which I've learned over the years, Steve, and I, by the way, I hope you make your guests really uncomfortable, because you're good at it, and there's lots of learning for everybody that comes from that.

                                                                                                       
"And I think that leadership is vulnerability. Leadership is humility. Leadership like other people can't learn from the guy who only shares all the things that wish he was perfect. Like, let's learn from our failures. And I wouldn't have understood how important the truth is without not honoring it. And I haven't honored it in personal relationships. I haven't honored it in integrity to myself. I haven't honored it in my action. I had been a bad leader, I've been a bad business partner, not because I'm a bad human. I love and I care a lot, but when the times where I did not take action with what I knew was true, which we can talk about the hierarchy of thinking and the hierarchy of truth, if we have time for it, when I didn't take action, consistent with what I knew was true, I was wrong every single time. And I hurt people, and I hurt myself, and I robbed myself of the beauty of the journey. And I believe that we always know the truth, but what we do is we have been taught to mask the truth, and mask the action associated with the truth, not because we wanted to protect other people. That's what a lot of other people think, but because we didn't have the courage to deal with the consequences. And I find that the greatest form of oppression that most human beings experience, as they wake up every single day, is always making decisions based on what other people will think, and it robs people of everything. And it robbed me of a lot for a lot of years."

And I'm so grateful to have broken through the other side, and I'll say mostly eradicated any need to protect myself in any form, from other human beings again. And I share this with my kids, and they roll their eyes, and I share them with other people, and they think that, oh, only you can do that, because of you know, however they see me. And it's just not true. We're all capable of it. We all know, truth exists within us. But we've all been taught, and I believe it's a combination of nature and nurture, with the nature of being, man, if we go back to tribal times, and what's coded in our DNA, and we can have a conversation another time about this of how belief systems or intelligence is actually passed down in DNA as behaviors, that what we were taught is if we get kicked out of the tribe 10,000 years ago, what happened to us? Well, we died, and so pleasing other people became this actual survival mechanism. And then we were born in 2022, and when we did something cute, our parents smiled back. And when we did something good, we got a gold sticker. And when we did something bad, we got a frowny face or spanked on the ass or what have you. And so, we've learned all of these ways, both nature and nurture, that judgment is bad, failure is bad, and it becomes an actual survival mechanism. And the problem is that in our society today, it is the most oppressive way to live, that we're constantly trying to please not only individuals that is our immediate family members or our immediate circle, but then we're of which I call seeking validation, but we're avoiding judgment from everybody else. And as a leader in an organization or in a business, your job is to discover what do you believe? What are your values? What do you stand for? And be willing in the face of knowing that judgment willing exist to live in your truth. Now, I've also learned that truth can be communicated with love, and that it that's actually the most powerful truth. And quite frankly, it's the edge of my learning because I'm a pretty assertive, pretty direct guy, and I'm not that guy that is, you know, happy go lucky and jovial like, I'm super intense. And I'm not the guy that goes to parties, I'd rather stay at home with my dogs and drink a glass of scotch and read a book. But I’m convinced to go to parties. And so, I'm the intense guy. And my articulation of truth, often is received as judgment by others, even though I truly do believe I'm expressing it with love. Well, guess what, for all the successes that I've had, I've got another edge of growth. And that edge of growth is learning to package my articulation with actual love. With the love that they can feel the love they can hear, while not muting my truth, and that's been a whole new chapter that's been a whole lot of fun. So, the failure has been not honoring that which is true for me and given circumstances. And my new failures when I do it in a way that hurts other people.

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Wow. Well, I'm grateful for the platform of podcasts, because my hope is that people in our listeners get to go, Ookay, wait a minute. And they get to go just hear that again. Because you unfolded some pretty sequential, meaning you started with the hierarchy of truth, and you went different places. And you certainly shared with us where you have failed and what that was all about. It's just so rich, bro, I'm gonna go need to listen to it again. So again, I did not plan by the way I didn't I have like all these questions, I'm not going to get to none of them. What do you think it's like to be around you?

Interesting. Here's what I like to think it is. I'd say modestly entertaining, because I'm not like the most charismatic person necessarily, probably because I kind of don't care. I may be intriguing, because I read and read and read and read, and I'm curious about the fabric of existence and the reality in which we are living in, because I have a desire to actually help people live and see and be the magic of this journey, and to connect with and have their devotion to their God. And so I think what's experienced, is somebody who radiates love, somebody who has such deep conviction, somebody who you will always know that that is a guy you can believe in and trust, and somebody whose expectations are hard to look up to their live up to, because I can have a withering gaze. I have this affliction of seeing everything that is wrong, and it's exhausting, probably more for others than it is for me. And it's something that I tried to remain aware of, and contain, not because I want to change who I am, it is just part of my makeup. But because I don't want other people to have that experience with me, I want them to know how much I love them how much I care how much I believe in them, and that I if they're going to be in an environment with me, and we have a mission that we say that we are going to achieve, we're going to achieve the mission. And we're going to do the right things along the way. And we're going to work hard and we're going to operate with excellence and all of those things. And it's just a standard that's hard to look up to. And they might experience some hypocrisy in me. I don't have specific examples, probably because I choose to block those out. But, you know, we're human. None of us are perfect.

So good. All right. This is just coming at me as you're speaking. My hands hurt from my notes, taking notes here. You know, with all your reading with all these experiences with the kind of guy that you are, I asked you that because there's very few people and I'm just listening to you, I don't know that very few, that's very judgmental. Have you ever come across people where you wonder if they know themselves very well? And you just strike me as the opposite. I really get the idea that you really know who you are, and that's why I asked you what if you knew what it was like to be around you or what you thought about that. So, thank you for that. What do you still hope to learn? Where are your growth areas going forward?

Oh, man, I hope you love this phrase, but it's going to lead to maybe so many other questions. You know, as I told you, I took I took about 100 days off this summer, and that's a that's a whole other conversation for another time. I had a clear intention for that time away and it was I felt like a new purpose had landed on me and I couldn't see it. I could feel it, but I didn't understand it. And I wanted to go quiet. And I wanted to allow it to surface. And I know I'm using language that is kind of third party language about a thing, and that's truly what I believe. And without going down the path of what did I discover of purpose, here's one thing that I did discover in answering your question, and then I can maybe give you a more tangible answer. The phrase that landed on me through this journey of discovery over the last 100 days is “I now know that I don't even know how little I know.” You know, I think we reach a point in our lives, and I'm not suggesting that I'm there, though, it feels like I might have broken through some threshold, so I don't want to have you know, false humility. I don't have a great example of a person that I can point to, but there's certainly examples in history that are pretty representative of what I hope I will articulate well, and that is that when we've reached a certain point, of let's call it mastery, once we truly become a master, a master really knows that the master doesn't know a damn thing. That the mastery is actually in the mystery every single day. And I have a good friend of mine and I that we talk about this concept a lot, and it's, it's the idea of waking up with humility and curiosity and discovery, every single day, because the moment that you think that you know, something, man, you just you just shut off your mind, just shut off your heart, you just shut off connection to the mysteries that our this experience of being human, and you stop learning, and you stop growing. And so, for me, and again, there are times where I go dark on this, and I'm in my ego, and I think I know and I gotta slap myself upside the head, but I would say that we call it operating with white belt. You might be a black belt, but walk into that dojo of your life, thinking that you know nothing and being in a state of curiosity. And I would say I'm getting better and better and better at that. And I'm the thing that I'm probably the most curious about, that I really want to understand, and I started reading your book, and I'm super curious about your journey and all the deep dive that you've done on the neurology of the human form and the psychology behind that neurology, and the thing that I'm most curious about is why do we wake up and choose pain every day? Why do we wake up and choose the energies that rob us of the beauty? I believe that the human journey is full of mostly self-induced suffering. Yeah, I believe there's nefarious and malevolent forces in the world, but most of what we experience is our own pain. And, man, as I look at my kids, as I look at the people in my life that I love, I want to fix it for them so badly, and I've gone so deep down the path and truly wake up in love with life every day. And yeah, there are days where I've been feeling disconnected or what have you. I don't know how to solve that pain. And that's my path. That's my journey. That's my hope. That's my dream. That's my fighting and scratching and clawing every single day. Is there a message at the door a word? Is there a sentence? Is there a strategy or methodology? Or is it actually just surrendering to that's just part of the journey, and that we need to experience the pain in order to realize that there is some validity to the journey. So that's probably where I'm from a tangible, tactical, practical perspective, pushing on learning the most.

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Curiosity. You wake up every day and you're curious. You're literally curating this curiosity. You’re fostering it. You think you can, you know, you say you're a coach, you're obviously a leader, you have a lot of people in your employer, you've worked with a lot of people, you're married, you got kids, if you come across people who aren't curious, like you are seeming, I'm going to say by nature, but that would launch us into a nature nurture debate, and I don't want to get into it right now. Like, that's cool. Can you teach curiosity? Can you coach curiosity? If you meet someone who just is not innately like, dude, you can say you learned all this in 100 days, but I guarantee you, I could have met you when you were like, 12, and you would have sounded a little something like this. You've been like this a while. And you're learning and I love your mind and how it works, but have you've been able to help other people be as curious as you are?

So just for clarity, do we have two minutes and you asked a minute and a half long question?

Yeah, no, you have 30 seconds. That's all.

Okay, perfect.

No, I'll give you 100 seconds. Come on. Go.

No. There is a definitely a nature and nurture argument in there that would just be debate and philosophy to unpack. You know, I don't know, to answer your question. What I think can be taught is humility. And I wonder if curiosity is the natural byproduct of humility.

Except who are we going to get to teach the course on humility?

That I don't know. The guys like you and I, who maybe aren't very humble anymore?

Exactly.

I don't, I don't think I don't think there's anything wrong with knowing where our gifts are, knowing what our strength is, like, that's false humility.

No, but if you and I came together and said, we’re gonna write a book on humility, it's gonna be frickin number one. Come on. That's a cartoon.

I love it.

All right. So, look, to say that I'm going to have you back on the show would be like, yeah, I am just grateful for the time I usually at the end of these, Matt, and then there's really no end. I mean, we barely even got going. But I like to remind people that the Insight interviews is not about your thoughts and ideas and suggestions and advice. It's not about mine, or anything that I say, but rather, as you were listening to this, you heard about a hierarchy of truth, or about these core human aims are love and joy and freedom, that people can take 100 days off and be curious, like any of the stuff, because, dude, you were talking like salt coming out of the Mortons can. You get that, right? Which is beautiful. And I loved it. I couldn't take notes fast enough. But the hope is that what one little insight, you as the listener did you take away? That's what we can hope for. And so, Matt, I am super grateful for our time, just grateful for people that like you that even live on the earth. So, thank you, for all you do. We'll absolutely have you back. We don't get to go into this too much, but was there one thing that you just really hoped I asked that I didn't?

Well, first, I really want to say thank you for what you do. I'm honored by the invitation to end to be with you. And the impact that you are having on people's lives is tremendous. So, you know, good on you, and I can't wait to go deeper in our relationship to explore how we might have a greater ripple effect of good. You know, I mean, there's so many questions. There are so many questions, none of them are the wrong questions. I would say my takeaway, given what you said to the audience is an encouragement, and that encouragement very simply is choose one thing and don't be afraid of the action. Failure is a construct that was made up by humanity that was about the observation of other people, having an opinion of your performance, and it does not matter. Be an action. Trust that your truth is the right truth for you. Don't be a jerk about it, be in love with it, but be in action because being an action is what does go into this world.

So beautiful. I just want to say goodbye. Like, I don't want to try to one up that. You know, my assistants gonna wonder, like she's gonna get through this and go, like, what do we need to title this thing? I kind of like, be about love, but don't be a jerk.

There you go. I like it. That's good.

No, there's so many better names in that. Matthew, thank you so much for your time, and thank you for being a part of our show and being a part of our lives right now, and I'm looking forward to the journey ahead.

Thank you, Steve.

We'll see you all next time here on the inside interviews.

 

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