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Matthew Hibler is a partner and co-founder of Artisan Home Loans. With over 21 years of experience, he has been a leading mortgage professional in the Colorado marketplace. His accomplishments include national recognition by Scotsman Guide as a top mortgage professional. Matthew is the proud father of a 10-year-old daughter and a 10-month-old son. He and his wife, Maggie, love the outdoors and make time to ski, hike, and travel to the beach as often as they can.

 

In this episode, Steve and Matthew discuss:

  • Why embracing change is crucial in business and life
  • How creativity and deep listening can shape successful careers
  • The future of tech in mortgage and professional services
  • Balancing soft skills and technical mastery in client relationships
  • The role of expert confidence in building trust and delivering results

Key Takeaways:

  • Embracing change serves as a growth catalyst—especially in industries like mortgage lending, where adaptability often determines long-term success.
  • Powerful mentorship begins with asking thoughtful, curiosity-driven questions that respect and support someone else’s unique journey.
  • Creativity, when paired with deep listening and market awareness, becomes a true differentiator in crowded, competitive spaces.
  • The future lies in a world where cutting-edge technology enhances—rather than replaces—human connection, leading to healthier, more mobile professionals.
  • Genuine confidence isn’t manufactured; it’s earned through relentless study, technical mastery, and the ability to instill trust beyond pricing or promotion.

“There's so much growth that comes from the requirement of embracing change.”

 - Matthew Hibler 

Connect with Matthew Hibler:

Connect with Steve and Jason:

 

Listen to the podcast here:

 

Matthew Hibler- Embrace Change

Hello everyone, and welcome to this episode of the Insight Interviews. This is your host, Steve Scanlon, and I have an awesome guest today. And when I say awesome, I mean that, like, in the true sense of the word. I think we overuse that word. I'm in awe of this guest, and so I'm really, really grateful to have as my guest today, and someone that we get to learn from, none other than Mr. Matthew Hibler. Matthew, say hello to our little podcast world.

 

Hello. Thank you, Steve. That's a great introduction, and I appreciate it.

Yeah. Well, we're just grateful to have you here today. So, look, we kick a lot of these off, you know, we try to be a little bit unique, but I think I'm going to start with a question that a lot of our listeners get a little bit, I don't know if they get used to it, because the answers are always so different, but here's my first question for you. What are you grateful for today?

I love that question. Thanks, Steve. There's so much. Probably I'm grateful for so much because of the work that I do with you. But today, coming off of a weekend that included my own birthday and an Easter holiday, I got a lot of time spent with family, and so I'm most grateful today for my wonderful family. My wife, Maggie, my daughter Vivian, my son Charlie. Everybody's happy and healthy, and I think for that, very simply, I'm most grateful for it.

No, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. How old is Charlie now?

10 and a half months old.

Oh, that's so great. What a fun age. All right. Well, look, thank you. We love to hear about people's gratitude’s, and we figure it's a good way to jump into our thing. Matthew, I certainly can read people a bio and get all that, but I always think it's just so interesting to come from you. Your life is very, it's just very complex, I get that, but if you were gonna give us your own bio, like, where'd you come from? Why do you do what you do? You don't have to spend, you know, an hour on it, but just as synthesized as you can, how would you bring us your bio?

Love that question, especially when I feel ill-prepared, but here goes. I'm a mortgage professional and a lender here in Denver, Colorado. I've been in the mortgage industry for 23 years and built a great business. Been a lot of fun. It's been challenging, as well. But here I exist professionally as a mortgage lender in the great state of Colorado, and specifically in Denver. I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, into a great, awesome, loving family. I've got three brothers, so a household of four boys. Often like to think about how funny that was. It was chaos all the time. But, you know, born and raised there. Into all of the sports that I could. Grew up athletic. Really, very fortunate that I could get into all the activities that I wanted to, but I found a way. And after a couple of quick years leaving the state of Wisconsin, after graduating college with a finance and entrepreneur degree, I ended up in Florida on the beach for a couple of years. I'd say that I thawed out down in Florida for two years and then took a really awesome job that moved me into Denver, Colorado. Been here ever since, and today with my family, you know, I feel so grateful and fortunate that we're healthy enough, we like to get outside and get exercise. Sometimes, my wife and I, when we get a little bit of time together and we need to have a meeting, we find ourselves doing that on a really long, extensive hike or a walk. Whatever we can fit in. But I’m a of an outdoor enthusiast and love the fresh air, and grew up with athletics and ended up here professionally in the mortgage industry.

Wow. 23 years, wow. I got questions about Milwaukee and the thawing out. I think that's kind of funny. In the 23 years, I know you're ill-prepared for this, which I think is kind of, I don't know, I think it's kind of fun. Over the 23 years you've been in this business, what stands out to you today as some of the maybe more meaningful lessons you've learned?

The one that pops into my head first and foremost is just the notion of change and embracing change. The mortgage industry, you know, it's a market based profession, meaning what you do on a daily basis is really subject to an ever changing, very dynamic, living, breathing marketplace. Rates are up, rates are down, housing demand is up, housing demand is down, price of real estate is up, hopefully not down too often, but change. And through working with you over so many years too, leaning into what is change, and what do you do with change, and how do you embrace and even capitalize on change is just so important. There's also so much growth that comes from the requirement of embracing change. You know, you get into a methodology and a set of habits, and then all of a sudden, the market changes, and you have to relearn and re embrace and fine tune whatever you're directing clients with or coaching people on professionally, so on and so forth, that there's just so much growth that comes from change. So, the set of lessons, I think, that I embrace, first and foremost, is based on the element of change, and then the growth that comes along with change, and just being ready for the next set of changes that are yet to come.

Yeah, you and I, we've spent a lot of time with that. People don't do it very well. You seem to have picked up on that and are really, really adept at it, but generally speaking, has it been your experience? Like people struggle with it. Just the whole concept of change.

Yeah, well, and look, I do too. I don't know that there's anybody on the planet that can say that they've always been graceful with change, but just learning to adapt to it, recognize it, name it, and then, as you say, tame it, embrace and figure out what the opportunity is, that's what it's all about. So even though I might even stumble upon the precipice of another set of changes, that's my chance to take a deep breath and take a step back for a minute and just realize, okay, where do I need to grow? What do I need to learn? And how can I embrace this change so that I can somehow capitalize on it. There was a CEO of a company I worked for right out of the gate, 23 years ago, a really great guy, I really admired him, and he led this big company, and I remember him being on stage at a company conference, and he said, look, you all have to be prepared for something here. You're in the mortgage industry, and it's inevitable that change will just always happen. Learn to embrace change. And when I first heard that, I was so young, and I had no idea what he was really trying to say. I kind of understood in concept, okay, great, there's going to be changes, but then here I am so many years later, and I'm finally thinking back 23 years ago, when Terry was his name, was standing on stage talking about how important it is to embrace the change that is always happening within the mortgage industry. He also went on to say something funny. His opening remarks were something like, okay, everybody, well, you weren't talented enough to become rock stars, so you chose mortgage, and here you are.

Oh, it's so good. Oh, it's so good. All right, I got one for you. Your daughter, Vivian, is 10 years old, right?

She is.

She goes to college. I'm sorry that's gonna happen to you here shortly. She's gonna go to college, she comes out, she's got a degree, like you do, and maybe she thaws out somewhere, I don't know, and she comes to you, and she's like dad, I'd really like to get into business, right? Maybe it's real estate, maybe it's mortgage, but something akin to what you do. You've got a great relationship with her. She sits down with you, and you get an opportunity to go, if you're gonna go into business, here's two or three things, and maybe we've got one of them, like embrace change, just like Terry said. What else would you tell her?

Hmm, what a great question. You know, I think I'll first answer that by saying quickly that you only know what you know, and you have to be careful, especially with a child, somebody who looks up and really admires you and respects how you think. And you know, you've been their whole world for a long time, so, you have to be careful what you say, because if you say something too opinionated, in my opinion, you could totally derail this wonderful path that they might be on, because I only know what I know. That generation, they might be looking at using technology to a degree that I have no idea how to harness or use yet. There are so many ideas I have there, but I'd have to be careful not to come at her to opinionated, because, you know, her path in business might look completely different than the path that I knew in my lifetime. So, I would just encourage her. She is creative, too, and I think there's a lot of people in business that if they know how to harness creativity or use it to their advantage, could really stand out. And because she's creative, you know, I might in that moment ask her questions about how is she going to use her skill and the gifts that she has, including creativity on her path in business, and how might she use that to her advantage? Maybe there's questions around that I'd ask her. But what I do know, one of the things I would ask her is, does she feel like she really understands how to listen to whatever the customer base is that she's trying to appeal to in her business? Whatever her business is, does she know how to listen? And it’s a lesson that her and I kind of work on, and she really is a wonderful, fabulous listener and then a thinker behind it, much like me. Maybe that's why we click, you know? Deep thinking, and I tend to process quickly. But I’d probably just ask her, how does she want to embrace her creativity, which I think is a set of gifts, and does she feel like she has a perspective on how to really listen to the needs of that marketplace, of the consumer that she's looking to lean into in business? And how could that benefit her?

Moving forward, you might be one of the few, if only people I've asked that question to. And there's nothing wrong with coming out and saying, man, Vivian, you need to do this and this and this and this. And if I heard you right, what I loved is, be careful not to have whatever you're going to say to her come off as opinionated, because, again, if I'm listening right, she could already be on a journey. And who's to say, right? That your opinions about what she should do, you kind of humbly said, what if that's competing with the journey that she's on? So, I really, really liked that and it’s the only time I've heard that. And then you said, I would ask her. So, what I really liked about where you went with that is you weren't telling her to do things, it was like I'd ask her about her ability to listen, I'd ask her about her ability to think, and I'd ask her about her ability to capitalize on a strength of hers. Do I have that right?

Yes, eloquently said. Little better than me, but yes.

I'm in the I'm in the seat of being able to listen, right? You're sitting there, but you asked, you know? I just for me, Matthew, I think that's part of what makes you unique, is you didn't say, sit down, and I'm going to tell you this and this and this and this. You didn't tell her anything. You asked her some questions, and I just think that's really insightful. Three things that I took notes on, listening and also just thinking in general, but also capitalizing on creativity. So just out of curiosity, there are a lot of creative types out there. How would you help someone do that? What's your way of helping someone, or even the guy you see in the mirror? How do you capitalize on this strength of creativity?

Well, this is cool. What just popped into my head when you asked me that is, you encouraged me to read a book, “What Got You Here Won't Get You There”, and I think about that a lot. Now, this isn't from the book. This is my own kind of effort to explain my point that I'm about to make, but you know, let's say that my daughter joins an organization as an employee, and she comes in as a deep-thinking, wonderful listener, but she's creative. You know, that business, whatever it is, that company, what got them here, got them here today, but there's a need, and they're hiring her to then get them there in the future. And so, I think there's a lot of people that plug into an organization and a business, and they're great in that they take direction and they listen about here's how we've done things here and here’s why we're successful as a business, but they have a need. They've hired her. They have a need. And if they want to continue to evolve and embrace change and be dynamic, they need fresh blood, or people to come in and say, hey, I've got a wonderful idea. I see how you do things here, and it's great, but how about this? How about that? And, you know, you can really start to then thrive and even grow, whether that means promotion or success or whatever. You know, I think organizations really need creative approaches and deeper thinking. And, okay, great, this is what got us here, but this is a new idea. It'll probably get us somewhere better, or this is what will get us there.

Thank you for that. Do you find, generally, there are a lot of organizations out there doing that? With all the change that's going on, it always seems, whatever season you're in, like there's an abnormal amount of change, but maybe people thought that in like, the 70s and the 60s, right? It seemed like an abnormal amount of change, but obviously, with technology and AI and all the various things that are going on, it really does seem fairly rapid. Do you think that makes it harder or easier for people like the whole concept of what got you here? Do you think there's more people that got here and are like, oh my god, choking on this idea that they feel like they have to change. Or do you find more people going, yeah, let's embrace this. Like, I don't know. How do you see that?

Gosh, from my perspective, I think there's very few that are eager to embrace all the rapid change happening right now, especially with AI and tech. You know, there seems to be this common assumption that tech and AI will take jobs away from people like us, and diminish what we have to offer, so on and so forth, and I firmly believe that's not the case. There's 20 tasks that I did today that I wish I didn't have to do, or, quote, unquote, waste time on, because my calling and my expertise or my wizardry is above a lot of these tasks that I had to do, right? And the tasks that I did ended up allowing me to make the points I had to make to my clients, or business partners or whatever. But sure, I mean, give up those tasks, embrace it and really lean into what your expertise is. But I think my perspective, my guess is that not as many people are thinking that way. It seems like there's a lot of perturbed individuals.

Possibly holding on to what got them there.

Yeah, right, yeah.

It seems like it.

Yeah, I don't know.

Well, you know, everyone has a theory about that, but who knows what the research actually says about that? I love how you said my best guess, like, 10 years from now, trying to find some point in the future, I would love to hear about that, because I know you're a guy that does look at stuff, and you do look at tech, and you do kind of have a finger on the pulse of at least some of what's going on. Like, what does it look like 10 years from now? What do you think? What does our culture look like? What do sales look like? What are these organizations around you? What do you think it looks like in 10 years?

What a great question. Okay, I have a little fear that I'll end up sounding gregarious or something with my idea here, but let's just go for it. You know, you've got these like Ray Ban eyeglasses that have cameras in them, and at the corner of the lens, if you have these glasses on, you're like, reading text as you're walking or driving. Or you're like, you know, as they say, walking and chewing gum. But these lenses allow you to do these things where you're really mobile, you're not trapped at a desk with a computer monitor, and you're not kind of feeling stuck there. You're out and with people or your clients or building relationships, and you can be mobile. So, what I'm envisioning as you ask me that question is, I've got these, I don't even want to say screens, but I've got these images that are being displayed in front of me, not through a piece of hardware, maybe it's shining up from my watch into the air, but I can read the information that's there. But it doesn't matter that I'm not at a wooden desk or a metal desk, right? I'm out with clients, and maybe we're doing an activity. Maybe we're golfing or something like this. But I can handle the tasks because of the technology and the AI by being mobile, which then I envision myself healthier, because I didn't spend eight hours trapped to a confined location. I have fresh air. And the imagery is kind of like shining in the air, and I can read it and decipher it, and then I can say, okay, this client, like in my business, this client needs an estimate and a quote. All right, please put that together and send that to them, and I didn't have to touch a keyboard. And then the client can call me while I'm still mobile, in fresh air with other clients, and I can answer their questions, but I didn't have to literally use my fingers and type this stuff out. So, kind of an outlandish little example. Hopefully I've created a good visual, but I see it as healthier. You know, I'm not confined. I'm more mobile, which might mean I have more time to spend with people that matter. Professional relationships, family, friends. I could spend more time with them, because I'm not confined to this hardware-based spot.

So many people are sort of stuck in what got us here, and even as you were saying that, I noticed inside myself that I was like, yeah, but. Yeah, I could feel that. Yeah, but what if this and what if that? And then I noticed that, and in the noticing, I was able to just put that down and listen and envision with you, and this kind of toward forward thinking positive. There's a lot of positives that could come of that. That we still get stuff done, but we're healthier. I was laughing, someone's gonna market that one day. We figured out a way to get rid of, like, bad backs and carpal tunnel syndrome and different things like that, and be with people, you know? I think that’s really cool. Well, whether that all comes to fruition or not, that's a guess, right? That's what I asked you to do, is just guess, right? And, you know, technology could be going that way. How do you blend what is to come with what we still have, because we're kind of between worlds, right? I mean, you still had to do 20 tasks or 10 whatever today. How do you blend what you see is to come with what we still are doing today? How does that work for you?

Well, interesting. I think no matter how far technology advances, people, in general, want a person to be responsible, right? And could technology literally manage itself from the data that it's putting together, to the grammar that it's using to explain it, to the emotion behind it that might be portrayed, to the person who's reading it, and so on? Could technology really learn emotion and intelligence in the right grammar? Even timing. Will technology call a client at midnight? Oops, sorry. I didn't realize. I'm a robot. I didn't realize I was calling at midnight. You know, can the technology really handle all of that? I don't know. I don't think so. But to some degree, the human element has to be plugged in, and so, I believe that people, customers, or however you want to table this, want to have someone responsible for a lot of reasons. I think we could probably unpack that for a long time, but that's my perspective. And so, technology will be there. It'll allow us to be healthier and quicker and more efficient, just like it has even over the last 10 years, but more so. But I still think that relationships, just like they always have been, will be embraced and necessary. And in that regard, the people that lean into that and realize, okay, now I'm the face, I'm the reputation, I'm the responsible person, but I've got all this tech running behind me. Okay, fine. I can handle that. Let's go ahead and be that person. Those people that embrace it, I think, will thrive, and the people that just fight it, well, I think we both know the people that fight it will lose.

I'm going to go slightly in a little bit of an odd direction here. How important is it for you to know your craft well?

Well, it's extremely important. And I know that through my work with you, I think you've said things like, hey, you're very much a technician, which I embrace. I love that. Being seen as an expert, in my opinion, could be one of the most important things that I embrace and think about and lean into. Of all the things that allow me to be who I am on a daily basis, I need to be an expert. And that doesn't mean that I'm giving an answer when I don't know the answer, because I need to be this expert to live up to something. That's not it. I study this. I learn from it. I listen really well when I make an error or didn't do something that a customer wished I did. I listen to that stuff, and then I think about it, and then I put that in my quiver and I become a little bit more of an expert, right? So, I think I forgot your question, because now going in this direction.

You use the language of being an expert. And I say that on the heels of us talking about the technology and things are going to change, and you add stuff flying off your watch that you could see and be with people, and be hiking and we were kind of out there in that world and I was getting to, like, you know, the blending of these worlds. But today, like, again, you're in the mortgage world. Somebody could be in the real estate world. I just wanted to know from you, you know, as we get into this technology and stuff, how important it was for you to be technically excellent at what you do? And then you took that and said, to be seen as an expert.

Right. Yeah. You know, I think I've seen and experienced that people that speak with me really want me to be super-efficient, number one, and I need to build confidence in them that what I'm proposing is really their best set of choices. Where that is financing the house with certain set of terms, or buying in that neighborhood, or buying a home in general, whatever it is, people want to hear confidence. I think in order to be confident, you need to be an expert. You need to have your finger on the pulse of the market and even talk people out of making decisions that you think are bad decisions. You need to be prepared for that, and the only way that you can have confidence to do that is if you know what you're talking about. An expert. People like efficiency, so all this technology floating around in the sky and space and me being mobile and not confined to an area, if I know my craft, and I'm seen and heard as an expert, and I have confidence behind it because I study it and I'm prepared, and I can be efficient, so I can literally be on a hike on a Saturday morning at 8am and somebody calls and says, I need to buy this home today. Help. Could I do that from the trail, from my watch? This example we were just talking about. But as long as I have confidence and I can get it done and be efficient, deliver the information that the request is based on quickly, that's everything. So, I put a lot of emphasis on that.

Yeah, well, again, I'm just repeating back what I'm hearing here. Confidence. You know, that's a thing that you and I could walk away and go, oh, be confident. But you sort of gave a hint to like, no, you can only be confident, oh, I guess you could fake confidence. Maybe people do that.

Probably.

But more often than not, that's not the challenge. If people aren't experts at their craft, yeah there's a handful of people that could fake confidence, but that's not the real problem. The real problem is, when you're not an expert in your craft, people lack confidence. And so I just wanted to get that out because you and I, I think as our listeners hear you, and that was something I told you, I kind of wanted to draw out, is just, I'm going to express this in terms of right brain and left brain, right? Or hard skills and soft skills. Matthew, I know you to be just this kind person who takes care of people, and you have gotten very, vey good at soft skills. As I got to know you more, I realized just what kind of emphasis you also put on technical excellence. And so, it isn't just that you're really great with people, which is true, and there could be people that are really great with people, and yeah, you've got this human element, but I find you to be technically excellent, which is why I wanted to ask you how important that is that for you, and you said very, right?

Yeah, yeah, it is. It's so important. If I'm a consumer and I'm looking to find my service provider, let's just say a different industry. Let's talk about home insurance. I'm calling around and I need home insurance. I'm going to call where I think is the best place to call, and I'm going to hear some people out. Of course, the bid and the quote are important, how much I'm going to pay, but really, I'm going to opt in and buy my service and product through the person that instills a lot of confidence in me. They know what they're talking about. They're studious in their trade. They know the latest challenges and advantages and where they can get a discount and all this other stuff. I'm going to choose them. And really the price, to me, is secondary or third or fourth on the on the priority there. I really need to know that somebody's got my back. I have confidence in them. They sound like they know what they're speaking about, and I feel like I'm covered by using their service so on and so forth. So, hopefully you can hear my point there. Somebody is going to stand out to me that has confidence based on being studious and in the know and an expert, and that's the direction I'm gonna go, and I think that's where I've thrived all these years, too.

Yeah, I find you to be fairly integrated. I think you're both. There are some people that are very kind, loving, caring, want the best for people, maybe they didn't dedicate as much to their craft, and you can go pretty far on soft, but it's a combination, and I was hoping we could draw that out. Personally, it sounds like you have that combination down pretty well. And you like you would say, do you have places where you could grow? 100%.

Yes.

But the technical expertise is what I'm hearing you say that's you can actually become an expert through study, through care, right? Maybe you and I should endeavor to help people just be confident before they became an expert, right?

Right. Well, and you've heard the saying, do what you love, right? And sometimes I think people misconstrue what that really means. Yeah, there's very fortunate people that become rock stars like that earlier example I gave you, the funny example, and they love every minute of every day, et cetera, so on and so forth. Well, there's a form of doing what you love, let's just call it do professionally what you choose to embrace, and maybe in the end, you'll love it too, right? And so like, what relaxes me now is when I have a little downtime to unwind, I will study financial markets and what's coming and what experts predict will happen in a couple of months, because I love learning this stuff. Now. When I set off in this career 23 years ago, did I love everything about that and was I unwinding and relaxing by reading about what's happening next week in the markets or what the forecasts are? No. But I just learned to embrace it, and to some degree, I probably do love a lot of it. And so hopefully you like that example. Do what you know.

I do, and I love that. I don't know what to say about that. Sort of like they build upon each other.

Yeah, right.

You kind of reminds me of the Steven Still song, “if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.” Maybe you wanted to be a rock star, but you ended up in this, and so you're studying it, you're learning it. The more you learn about it, and you become an expert, the more you might love it.

Yes.

And that just feeds on itself. Oh, dude, that's so good. Well, my hand hurts. I need some of those glasses that can reflect back to me all the really cool things that you've already said today. Well, dude, we're at the end of our time. Let me ask you this. Was there something as you got into this, and I know we both sort of came in blank-slatey, so to speak. I had the advantage, because I knew I was going to interview you, but was there something about your business, about your life, about how you do things that you hoped I'd ask that I didn't?

Hmm, I don't think so. No. Thanks for asking that, Steve. Really, I feel grateful for the opportunity to speak with you about this. What's interesting is when you talk out loud about what you do, or what you focus on, so on and so forth, the more you talk about it out loud, the better you understand yourself or what your goals are. And so, I just think by talking with you, it helped me kind of re embrace what really is the most important to me on a day-to-day basis or week to week basis. So, it's just fun to have a minute to decompress and take a breath with you and kind of retrace what I'm trying to do here, and what my goals are, and it gave me a little clarity talking to you today.

I'm so grateful. Look, I've got so many notes. I loved what you said about not having strong opinions with your daughter and maybe even with our employees. I love that. That we would listen and help them think. Being an expert and blending that with this care for people that you clearly have, and the confidence that you've shown. There was just so much good there. Just loving the one you're with. Love that you do that. A lot of people don't, and so brother, I'm grateful. And typically, at the end of these things, it doesn't we have this saying. It says it doesn't really matter what Matthew thinks or what I think, it really matters how people hear it, right? You can hear this stuff, and so what will people take away? And that's what matters to us. So, I'm super grateful to you.

Well, same, and thanks for saying that, Steve and I totally agree. If somebody can take away a new tool or a new arrow and put it in their quiver, then great. Mission accomplished.

Well, Matthew, thank you again. Thanks for being on the show. I want you to come back sooner rather than later. I want to talk more about that watch that's going off and the glasses. And I know you meant that kind of figuratively, but it is fascinating how quickly things are changing, and so I hope we get to embrace it.


What do they call that? When your watch would shine? Like, a hologram? That's what I was looking for. Not a screen.

You know, look, in 1977, I'm going to really date myself here, and someone's going to correct this, but Star Wars came out right? And what's her name? The princess was on a hologram. We got to have that pretty soon, right? I mean, come on, I'm sure that already exists.

Yeah, I think it was in the 80s, wasn't it? Dick Tracy, you know, this detective had like a hologram that shined off of his watch. Do you remember that?

I kind of do. Between him and Princess Leia, come on. Maybe there's something there. A new business.

That's right.

Anyway, thank you very much for being a part of what we did today, Matthew. You are awesome and grateful for you, so thanks.

Pleasure to be here. Thank you, Steve.

And like we say every time, thanks for being a part of this gang, and we'll see you next time on the Insight Interviews.

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  • First cool thing
  • Second cool thing
  • Third cool thing
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