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About Joey Abdullah

He is a graduate of the US Naval Academy and Johns Hopkins University with degrees in both Economics and Finance.


Joey’s goal is to offer advice that helps customers build wealth and prosperity with real estate quickly by helping them make smarter mortgage decisions. He will always help customers to manage their mortgages over time to ensure that they always have the best option to achieve their goals.


Joey loves playing golf and skiing. He lives in Denver, CO with his beautiful wife Lindsey and their awesome sons Danny and Nathan.



In this episode, Steve and Joey Abdullah discuss:

  • Giving reverence and respect
  • Better than you found it 
  • Commit to giving value 
  • An opportunity in chaos 



Key Takeaways: 

  • Give respect and reverence to first responders, soldiers, and other people that serve and protect us. 
  • Wherever you go, whatever you do, and whoever you encounter, leave them better than you found them. 
  • Commit extra effort to making sure that people you encounter receive value from you. For clients, provide education, and for other people in your industry, help with networking. 
  • There is an opportunity to be valuable in the midst of chaos. As an advisor, knowledge is the value that people need, and that’s something that you can provide if you enrich yourself with relevant information. 


“Everybody’s scared to ask, ‘what do I not know?’ That’s why I flood them with education. That’s how I wanna leave them better than I found them.” - Joey Abdullah

Connect with Joey Abdullah:





Connect with Steve and Jason:

LinkedIn: Jason or Steve

Website: Rewire, Inc.: Transformed Thinking 





Listen to the podcast here



Joey Abdullah: Leave It Better Than You Found It

I got a cool episode from a unique individual. That’s shy of saying, “This guy's a freak. Wait until you know him.” I have a great guest on. I'm excited to draw out some of his insights.


Joey, say hi to the audience.

This is Joey Abdullah. I'm super excited to be on here with you.

It's going to be a great call. To be truthful, neither you nor I know that.

That's true. You wouldn't give me any questions beforehand. I'm ready.

We do that on purpose, especially with people like you. You and I have had a few interactions in life. The ones that I've had, I've usually walked away like, “Whoa.” You think at a different level. I'm eager to have our readers know some of your thinking and how you move through life in your work. We're going to get to draw that out.

I'm excited.

Before we get there, I do have 1 or 2 questions. I don't come in completely blank. I got to have some questions. In this episode, here's what I want to know from Joey Abdullah before we even know who you are. I want to know what you're grateful for.

I don't want to be too superficial and give the normal cliché answers, but I'm grateful that I've been allowed to impact a ton of people. I'm going to start there. I grew up with parents that split up when I was about one year old. They both got remarried. I ended up being the oldest of ten eventual kids. Being the oldest, I was able to influence my younger siblings. They were all half brothers and sisters. That was huge.


Graphics - Caption 1 - TII 114 Joey Abdullah

Real Estate: Folks don't want to look ignorant in front of a gigantic sale. They don't want to be taken advantage of. They don't want to look unintelligent to who they're interacting with.


For everybody reading, I was in the military in the US Navy for about fifteen years. I was super grateful for my opportunity to serve this country and impact as many folks as I was able to impact ideally in a positive manner. That was huge for me. That's what I would say. What I am truly grateful for is the ability to impact folks. I want to continue to do that. I want to impact many more.

I've never been able to ask any one of those. This is learned behavior. I saw this happen and then I decided to emulate it for the rest of my life. I am that guy buying someone in a uniform a drink. I am that guy that will stop, shake their hand if they're willing to, and say, “Thank you.” First of all, thank you. Thank you for serving the country.

I appreciate that. Usually, I'll follow that up with, “Thank you for your support.” While I was serving, they thanked me for my service, and even now. We don’t show true appreciation. This goes beyond even the US Military. It’s the first responders, teachers, and a lot of true heroes on a daily basis that impact our lives that should be thanked. Appreciating the support is huge as well.

It's always awkward to answer that question, to be honest. When you are in uniform, it's nice to accept the drink. I'll give you the tidbit from the other side. It's fun to hear that accolade quite a few times, but it's always awkward how appropriately to answer that. They don't tell you that in boot camp. You're going to be thanked a ton at Applebee's and given a free blooming onion at a restaurant on Veteran's Day. Nonetheless, it is much appreciated when somebody does. Thank you. I appreciate your support.

That's a question I get to ask you. I don’t know what we'll dive into. You seem like a very grateful person. You are grateful for my gratitude and vice versa. Maybe that's what makes the world go round. That's what I've come to appreciate and like about you because you are that person. Was there ever anything when people would see you and talk to you? Did you ever secretly wish they asked or said something different?

For example, I come up to you and say, “Thank you for your service,” which you're very gracious towards. You’re like, “Thank you for your support.” I'm asking selfishly. Is there any other way, other than to say, “Thank you for your support?” Did you ever hope that the people of this country shared appreciation in other ways beyond verbally thanking you?

I'm going to globally say I've never thought through anything deeper than that. My wife, Lindsey, also served in the military. She was in the Navy with me. One thing that we have brought up quite a bit, and something that I would wish that more folks would think about, is whenever we stand up at a sporting event, a lot of times, they will say, “Let's stand up.” Maybe they're honoring a single veteran that they promoted to a better seating section with their family. Maybe we're doing a surprise return from deployment and we're surprising the kids and the spouse on the 50-yard line.

Let's say something like that's going on. What I wish I could put out there a little bit more is I wish we would think about those that are deployed even here locally. They’re our first responders and teachers. I wish we would think about them a lot more than that 90-second clip. The standing ovation is great. We want to get back to the sporting event. It is nice that we can sit down and reflect, but I do wish sometimes that we would think about it a little bit more. I would answer the question that way. In your moment, it’s walking past somebody in the airport or a park to say, “Hi,” and thank them for their service. It is a reminder.

I wanted people to think about me a little bit more, not in an odd way, but with me being able to pick out a niche with veterans. It’s a natural niche for me when I was in the infancy of my career trying to drum up some mortgage business. Here in Colorado, we have a lot of military license plates. There are a specific US Army license plate and a veteran license plate. There are all the branches of service. If you've earned certain accolades, awards, medals, or served in certain campaigns, there are specific license plates. A lot of states have that.


That first house is always tough to buy.

If you're behind somebody with a United States Air Force license plate, that's a way for you to think that there are folks out there deployed serving. The more that we can come back to reflect on the fact that our folks out there protecting us that we don't know about is a cool thing to me. Whether we agree with the policy makers or not, somebody is putting on the uniform, tying their boots, and taking an action. To me, it's a cool thing. To be reminded about it a little bit more often a few more times would be cool.

That reminds me of when somebody passes away also. There's always this period of time when a lot of people surround those people. If it was an accident or even however it happens, there's always a period of time. There's a period of time after a few weeks or a day that people go back to their life. I've been in that place. There's a period of time where it's pretty lonely because there's always this heightened thing. I'm always putting it into my calendar to call somebody a month afterward and talk to them then because I'll go back to life. You gave me a great reminder that I'm going to continue to do that. Thank you for that.

When you're out here in Colorado and you see one of those license plates, you'll think about it.

I might even roll down my window and catch up to them. I'm not kidding. That's super cool. I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, but thank you. I've said this many times in the interviews that I do. I could read your curriculum vitae. I could read your bio. I can read all stuff about you. As weird as it is, it comes sometimes better from you. If I said, “I'm going to give you 3 to 4 minutes max to synthesize who's Joey Abdulla,” we've already learned a little bit about you, but get us current. Where are you? Why are you that? if you could synthesize that in a few minutes, how would you do that for us?

I’m sitting here in Denver, Colorado. The story always is better from the beginning. I grew up in Los Angeles with a single mom. She ended up remarrying and additional siblings came along the way. When I was seventeen, I joined the US Navy. I won't go into that exciting story. That's a fun story that I'll tell you in person, but how I ended up with that branch, I’m glad I did. Everything happens for a reason.

I ended up deploying overseas a couple of times on a couple of different aircraft carriers. As I was finishing my initial commitment with the Navy, I literally and figuratively got tapped on the shoulder. They were like, “You're a natural-born leader. Have you ever thought about applying to become a Naval officer?” I had been an enlisted man. I never thought of that, to be honest. I then started thinking about it and applied, and subsequently got accepted to the US Naval Academy.

I went to Annapolis, Maryland, and studied Economics there. I ended up graduating pretty close to the top of the class. I don't say that to gloat. I say that because there's a pretty cool handful of opportunities for folks that graduate up there. Instead of going straight to a ship, to flight school, to nuclear power school, or one of the other training schools to pick up what your job is going to be in the military when you graduate and serve, I ended up going straight to graduate school, which is pretty cool. I ended up getting my MBA in Finance.

While I was in school, I found a liking for the financial world. I always thought I'd work in high finance, either in New York or San Francisco. I would be in some analytical role or capital markets somewhere. I ended up realizing that cubicle life was not for me. I can do a lot of the statistical analysis and capital markets type of work probably, but I'd rather go shake someone's hand.

While I was still serving, like a lot of folks, I ended up stumbling into the mortgage industry and fell in love with it right away. I thought I wanted to be a financial advisor on the street level, shaking people's hands, and not being in a cubicle and doing financial work. This was a little bit cooler because there are not that many folks building their business from the street level up working financial advocacy and advice. That's what I had seen. My wife and I had a pretty bad time with our first mortgage. It was a VA loan. We were a unicorn couple with six-figure salaries, VA loans, and great credit scores. The guy messed it up. I've found that there was a need.

Graphics - Caption 2 - TII 114 Joey AbdullahYou walked away from that situation going, “I got this degree. If this guy can do this work, I got to be able to do this work.”

I'm trying to tell the story faster to be nice and so that this would be easy to read. Nonetheless, I didn't have the best experience, but I realized I could provide a better experience, better advice, etc. It's a big financial decision that people make, and likely the largest one they'll ever do, especially for the first house. Once you start buying a few houses down the road, do a couple of refinances, and not just the paperwork that you get used to but have a little bit more equity and a little bit more money, that first house is always tough to buy.

Even with the VA, there are still closing costs. They're still stuck to get the script together. Plus, the information. It is alarming how we don't get taught this in schools, so we rely on a professional. I realized, “Why don't I be that professional or at least go down this route?” I was on active duty and ended up getting my license. I fell in love with it.

Leaving the military, I ended up drumming up more business. This was not my full-time gig. Something I still miss is the camaraderie with the military, but I genuinely love leading, managing, and mentoring folks. What am I grateful for is influencing as many people as I can in a positive way. All this alludes to the fact that as I've grown in my mortgage career, worked at a handful of different companies, and always took on bigger roles, I want to build a big team.

I had team Joey that grew into a branch, into a region, and then into a state. As I've grown into these additional roles, I do love pouring in anything from advice and from experience. There are folks with more years under their belt, but I like to come in with maybe a different perspective at times. I’ll come in with a breath of fresh air with anybody that I'm interacting with, whether it's a client, somebody on the sales side of working with us, or somebody on the operational side.

To finish up this story and maybe we can go down the rabbit hole here a little bit more, but when you borrow someone's car, I want to leave it better than I found it. Every employee or client that I've worked with, even if they end up not working with me, I want to leave it better than I found it. Typically, that's my advice, my influence, and any education that I can give. Even if they ended up with somebody else, I want to make sure I left it better than I found it. I'm going to make sure the gas tanks are full and the upholstery is clean when I hand them back the keys. If they end up driving away, that's okay. I'll leave it better than I found it.

Have you ever thought of writing a book?

I'll probably need a ghostwriter because I have 10,000 ideas that never get put together succinctly.

I'm one of the 10,000 ideas, but it's reflected back to you. We partly do that in coaching. If I ever saw a book title from you, knowing your background, the title would be, “Leave It Better Than You Found It,” that would be super cool. There's a lot in that because I got questions about that. Do you want to go down the rabbit hole? You're in this business. You do it. Give us some examples. I know you did already but dive a little further, if you wouldn't mind, for us into what it means to leave something better than you find it specifically in this line of work.


Leave things better than you found them.

Let's use a traditional client. They call in to ask about interest rates. My world is mortgages and not knowing exactly who this show goes out to, but sales are ubiquitous. We have all got the 3 or 4 common objections and common questions when we're first interacting with somebody. Price is one of them. It’s about educating somebody. A lot of times, I feel like when I say these things out loud, it sounds a little cliché, but there are more important things than that. However, I do realize quickly that folks don't want to look ignorant on a gigantic scale. They don't want to be taken advantage of. They don't want to look unintelligent to who they're interacting.

I'm not a car guy, but if I were going to go buy a Lamborghini, I would probably try to research as much as I could before I go to the dealership because I wouldn't want to be had. I want to look up the price, different types of engines, benefits of different tires where I'm living versus where I might drive it, etc. I'm going to try to educate myself as much as I can. We’re in a little rabbit hole here, but that's what I mean when I say I want to leave it better than I found it.

I know people come to me, probably 90% of the way, they're rounding third base. They've looked up everything they can. They've talked to their parents, neighbors, or coworkers. They know what's going on, but everybody's scared to ask, “What do I not know?” That's what I flood them with. I want to fill them with that education. That's what I want to leave them better than I found them. People are doing that. This is for any industry. We don't want to look like we don't have the conversational knowledge, at least, of what it is that we're about to purchase, interact with, or go down some educational path.

If you're going to choose an educational institution, you’re probably going to research it way more before you go there. When you're there, ideally, you're confirming what it is because you have your own bias. You probably read about it, the alumni, etc. That's what I mean by I want to leave it better than I found it. Another title of a book If I wrote it, and I say this quite a bit, but I'm a big input-to-output ratio guy. I made up that term. I don't know what that means or exactly why I say that all the time. What I mean by the input-output ratio is I want to minimize my input and maximize my output.

I'm a lazy guy. I say that in a fun way, but why would I want to recreate the wheel? On my first day that I was working at a brokerage shop, a guy took me under his wing. He thought I was a little crazy because I was still on active duty and wanted to learn this business. He mentioned, “This is a sales role. You got to convince clients and realtors to trust you. Good luck.” I was like, “If he's telling me to go talk to some real estate agents, I wouldn't trust me, so how are they going to trust me?”

I realized that if you told me, who got my license, to go talk to as many realtors as possible, guess what everybody else is probably trying to do? I tried to figure out better ways to get in front of them. I ended up finding the folks. To me, it was a little easier, but I would connect real estate agents with other folks that I thought would build their network.

We're going all over the place, but this is good for this interview. I ended up finding tertiary industries. I befriended a handful of state planning attorneys. One guy that I'm still good friends with, his firm manages a minimum of $5 million and up estates. Every quarter, he hosts a happy hour. I befriended him and we became good friends. Our wives would hang out. It was a close relationship. He would invite me to this event every quarter like clockwork and say, “Bring 1 or 2 people if you want to bring them.”

I would always invite a pretty top real estate agent that I was trying to get in front of and say, “You have to sell yourself here, but do you want to come to this event where there's going to be 150 affluent individuals?” 100% of the time, they've said yes and are super appreciative. I've either had the opportunity to work with them or their teams for years as they've built themselves up. That's back to the leave it better than you found it. I want to go offer somebody something better than an interest rate.

You were dovetailing off of input versus output and why recreate the wheel. You figured that out. I started taking notes feverously. I like that you found tertiary industries.


Graphics - Caption 3 - TII 114 Joey Abdullah

Real Estate: I could get compensated for my advice, not my time.


Nobody else was going after it in my industry.

I don't know if that's rocket science or not, but do you know how many people don't do this? I'm sure there are smart people reading this, but what Joey did was rather than take his license out there and start “talking to realtors,” he found 1, 2, or 3 industries of people that he knew that realtors spend their life going after, including affluent people. He went and was talking to them. You're one of the few doing that.

There are not a lot of financial advisors hearing from mortgage people. That might've been unique. You spoke that language. You had an MBA and figured that out. That was a connecting type of vehicle that was a little indirect. It wasn't like, “Realtor, send me loans.” It was like, “Do you want to come to a thing where you can grow?” The next thing you know, you're building trust through the connections that you make around the world.

I want to lower the bar to work with me or approach me. Another example of stuff that I did when I was in my infancy because I didn't know what I was doing, was I knew that I probably need to sound a little different than others that I heard. I would go out on sales calls with some other mortgage folks and they said the same thing. They've got great service and rates. I was even getting bored, so I can’t even imagine what these agents do all the time.

I'm sure there's a psychological term for this, but let’s picture some trade show. Let's say it's a trade show for cars and car enthusiasts. The guy or gal selling beer and peanuts makes a killing. They're not being sold car stuff, but there's a ton of people selling better rims. There are tons of people selling stuff to clean up your leather. There are tons of people that are selling car stuff. It's the ones that are selling wallets that ended up killing it at these things.

I'm making up something, but this is a true story. There were 2 or 3 car shows where I sponsored a booth. I had a sign and I thought it was genius. I had a big sign in front that says, “Did you like that car in 7F? Come to me, I'll help you do a cash out on your house and you can buy it.” That's where I'm getting your indirect comment there. That's exactly right. I was more approachable than if I held that same exact booth at a home and garden show. There are probably seventeen mortgage people at those shows, but there was the goofy guy in the corner booth that says, “Do you like that car in 7F? Let me help you buy it. Let's talk about getting a cash-out refinanced.”

What you're doing is bringing up a unique value profit. Why are you unique? How do you sound unique? How do you come off unique? I know less about insurance than you know about cars, but I got to imagine. In that industry, it's easy to probably get trapped and talk about the same old things over and over again. It’s normal because people call you up and they start talking about interest rates. It would be easy to get trapped in the idea, “I get it. My job is telling people what interest rates are and maybe coming up with some scripts or things to say around interest rates.” You probably have to do that at some level, but if you keep doing that, you're like 96% of the rest of the industry.

You have to realize that if everybody's saying the same thing, how do you stand out? Hopefully, somebody takes some tidbits from what I'm saying here. I realized that a lot of folks would go out there and self-profess their expertise in something. Nobody said anything against it. I'm sure that there are handfuls of times that somebody is going to host an event. I'm sure you've been heckled. That's never going to work in my industry. We talked about that as well that we avoid the, “My industry is different. My city is different. My state's different.”

I took out a couple of ads in some real estate agent magazines and a local Denver magazine. They’re full-page ads. I took it out and had my picture plastered all over it. I had my team on there and I said, “We're the best condo lender in Denver.” Do you know how many people say they’re the best condo lender in Denver? It is zero, except for me. It wasn't that I was trying to drum up that business. It's something else unique to say. I looked up the MLS, Multiple Listing Service, one day. It shocked me that about a little over 1/3 of every listing is some condo project.


If everybody's saying the same thing, how do you stand out?

I'm going to tell everybody in the world that I'm the best condo lender. Most lenders will tell you they don't like working condo deals because you have to deal with another third party, the condo association, and paperwork that adds up. Those folks are typically slow. Stuff like that is indirect. I like the way you put it, but thinking a little differently is what's been helpful for me. That's how I think with my 10,000 ideas and 10,000 thoughts. You mentioned writing a book. I capitalize on one at a time, and it seems to have worked out.

It’s worked out great. You're doing pretty well. There was a book. Many of our listeners will know this. It’s a book called Blue Ocean Strategy.

That’s a good book.

That was everything you're talking about. If you want to go out there and talk about interest rates, that’s great, but get ready for the bloody red ocean of competition. When you're saying the things that you're saying and doing, it takes some creativity. I've been doing this workshop with people and talking about creativity. I've all but determined that one of the greatest killers of creativity is stress and anxiety. It's extremely difficult to live under duress, stress, and anxiety and be creative at the same time.

We are bouncing around, but I like this. I’ll say something else that I noticed. We all have directions that we're going in life. Ideally, it’s going forward, but we tend to hit forks in the road. For me, it was like, “Do I join the Navy or one of the other branches? Do I work for this company or another company? Do I get into this type of sales? Do I get into operations?” We all have these forks in the road. We’re like, “Do I choose this major or another one?” With that, I also realized I've continually chased mentors. I want to work with folks that might have a little bit more insight. I'm going to get as much as I can to better myself because I can empower other folks with that.

You mentioned the Blue Ocean Strategy. There's been a handful of books that have changed the trajectory of my life. One of them was the Blue Ocean Strategy. It’s a great book, so we're going to keep alluding to it. I remember this like it was yesterday. I don't even know why I picked up this book. None of this is profound. I thought 2 or 3 millimeters to the left differently. As I started going in this next direction, it worked.

I read this book from a guy named Alan Weiss called Getting Started in Consulting. It’s not much of a profound book. I’m sure if he heard me, he wouldn't mind me saying this. There's no need to buy this book, but you can buy it. It's not a crazily profound book. It's about 110 pages with a size 19 font and pictures all over the place. The book started in consulting. He talks about buying a computer. The concepts are easy.

What it got me thinking about was that I could get paid for my advice versus my time. There was a carrot dangled in front of a lot of folks from a lot of industries, the military being one of them. They’re like, “If you serve for X number of years, you're going to get a retirement for life. If you serve X number of years, you're going to earn this promotion. If you serve 40 hours this week, I'm going to give you a paycheck.” I'm trading my time for money or some other thing that I want that’s something of value. This was the first time I ever had the mindset that I could get compensated for my advice, not my time. That’s why I'm here talking to you.

You aligned that with this desire that you've had of what it seems like forever of wanting to help people. The reason that you're as successful as you are is because of the alignment and something that you found that you enjoy.


Graphics - Caption 4 - TII 114 Joey AbdullahReal Estate: The chaos is a tremendous time to add value and educate any client.


It was also me being that advisor and influencing folks. We went through compliance. I went through all the marketing folks. It was done correctly. When the ad hit, my phone wasn't ringing off the hook, but I made sure I told everybody about it. I was like, “I’m the best condo lender,” to anybody that I would talk to. What that made me do was it forced me to get good at being a condo lender.

It’s atrocious. Anybody on here that's in my industry is cringing because nobody likes them. I forced myself and I got better. I expanded my own product knowledge and my own base of being able to be an advisor right back to that whole Alan Weiss book. The book Blue Ocean Strategy was one of them and The Challenger Sale. I don’t know if you've read that one, but that's another profound book.

One of my favorite sayings in life is attributed to Dale Carnegie. He said, “Success in business and in life consists not only in the pursuit of excellence but also in the humble willingness to start over.” Every time economically in your industry, whether you're in real estate, mortgage, financial, or whatever it is, it seems like stuff happens because it's a cyclical business. Some people stand up and are super shocked like it never happened before, but it's happened. It's going to happen again. We're going to go good and bad, and that's the way life is.

When it's happening, there's a sense that we got to start over. Dale Carnegie would get people to embrace that. This is what I'm going to ask you to do as quickly as you can. In the spirit of starting over, you're going to teach a class. The class is about how to be great as a beginner in mortgage banking in May of 2022. What are some of the things off the top of your head?

I know you didn't have space to think about it and put a syllabus together. If you were teaching this class, what would you teach? What are some of the key things that you would say, “If I was going to start today, here are some things, concepts, ideas, strategies, and tools.” As quickly as you can think of them, what would be the top 3, 4, or 5 things that you would say, “You must do this if you're going to be successful?”

This is great. This isn't a time to reflect on how great it's been the last few years. If you're getting into this, you've heard the stories. That's great, but we're in a new paradigm. I'm going to go back to my wanting to influence as many people as I can. I would say this all boils down to being an advisor. There’s a lot of chaos. That's when you can be valuable to people.

In that chaos, there is your ability to become valuable. Read every guideline. Know the guidelines better than the next guy. Know the guidelines better than the underwriters. Truly understand that we've gone through a change, but we're here. Rates are where they are. The guidelines are where they are. The inventory is where it is.

This is me talking to anybody that's new. I didn't have anything to do with that. You didn't have anything to do with it. We have to react to it and adapt to it. In this chaos, this is a tremendous time to add value. Educate any client. Whoever is going to be able to talk to the most people is going to win. Teach classes. Talk to as many agents. Get feedback from them. Bounce into some open houses.

It’s not to necessarily drum up your own business, but to be like, “How can I help you? What are you seeing out there? What are you nervous about? What are you seeing that’s going well for your business? Do you mind if I share that with somebody else?” The last thing I'll say here is a term I have on my whiteboard. Be aggressively curious with as many people as you can and you're going to win.


Be aggressively curious with as many people as you can, and you're going to win.

It kills me to have to ever end these shows because I still want to go, “Can we dive into that?” I want to leave it at that. Be aggressively curious. I would want to ask questions about why the adjective aggressive. I love it, but what's behind that? Telling someone to be curious, you could ask a question, but be aggressively curious, it almost seems like, “I really want to know.” Is that what you mean by that?

That's exactly why I put that word in front. I can be curious about almost anything. I can be curious at the gas station about the guy or gal that's taking my $20 to fill up pump number seven. Being aggressively curious, you're going a little bit deeper, or maybe even aggressively deeper. It’s not necessarily in an odd way. If I'm talking to a real estate agent, I would be like, “Why are you so nervous about this market? Tell me what you're seeing out there. What do you think would change that? How can I help you?” Being aggressively curious, you're genuine as well.

When you ask somebody, “Why are you worried about the market?” we need to do a whole show on this. We got to go, but that question is so great. I’m like, “Why are you worried about this market?” I want to see if I can pigeonhole into the aggressively curious. If I said to you, “Why are you worried about that?” I’ll think about the tone of that. If I'm not careful with my tone, it sounds like, “Why are you worried about that, idiot?” as opposed to a concerned tone. It’s the same question and has the same words, but it’s like, “Why are you worried about that?” That's so fascinating.

Why is the word worried the choice there? It’s not to judge you or torment you, but why? I've been asking myself that about some things. If I'm not careful, that question ends up being judgmental. I’m like, “Why are you thinking that?” as opposed to, “Why am I thinking that?” I don't know if that's what you mean, but that's genuinely aggressive.

That’s profound. You are right.

One’s judgmental and the other seeks to understand.

I'm sure you can understand that I'm never judgmental when I bring up the question, but you are right. For anybody reading this, when you are aggressively curious, what that also tells me, to be succinct for sake of time, is it’s causing me to be more of an aggressive listener.

I can clearly tell why you got good at what you do. It's genuine. We can teach the script of asking questions, but can we teach people to genuinely care? It feels to me like you wouldn't have led your life the way you do without your genuine care. We'll keep trying to coach that as best we can, but grateful.

We started with your background. Thank you for all that you have done for the country. Thank you for what you do for the industry. Thank you for your passion to want to serve other people. This world needs more of that. Beyond that, it’s some of the tactical, tangible things about being paid for advice and helping people. I love the input and output thing.

Maybe people are going to read this and go, “What tertiary industry?” Maybe I'll call dentists. I don't know. I made that up, but it is to say, “What creativity you're going to bring to the table?” My hope is that that's what we're trying to do here in this show. It’s to learn some of your insights. Maybe I’ll add 1 or 2. I’ll ask some good questions, but at the end of it all, it doesn't matter what our insights are.

What matters is the people reading this. What are yours? What insights did you have reading about Joey and this? There was some great stuff here. I hope you have some good insights of your own as a reader. Joey, thank you for all you do. Thank you for being part of the show. This will be a, “Let's do another one here shortly.” Could we do this monthly? We got a lot. We got to get those 10,000 other ideas out there, right?

That's right. One at a time.

I'm looking forward to the book, Leave It Better Than I Found It. I love all that. Thank you for all the insights. Thank you for being a part of our show.




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