Jelaire is the Brand Ambassador at Prosperity Home Mortgage and travels the country training and elevating mortgage lenders and leaders to change the game and maximize their future growth potential using various tools in the PHM technology stack. Traveling in market and the conference circuit allows Jelaire to promote the PHM brand in a public space and elevate the MC brand using PHM's tools. In market, Jelaire works to drive the adoption of those tools.
Mortgage was not Jelaire’s first stop. She started at a lobbying firm on The Hill in DC and then moved into the non-profit space soon after she realized The Hill was not for her. Jelaire started in the mortgage industry in 2012 as a Loan Officer Assistant. She played in that space for about 6 years, but her true love is to be creative. She eventually edged her way into a marketing position and the rest is history.
In this episode, Steve and Jelaire discuss:
- Seeking out your passion
- Learning something from others
- Developing your personal brand
- Why should you have a “why”
Key Takeaways:
- Listen to the longing of your heart. Consider how you could do more of the things that you are truly passionate about.
- Open yourself up to building relationships with people and learning from them, especially those who come from a very different background than you. Everyone is different; apply that truth when coaching in a group.
- Developing your personal brand starts by pulling out that authentic identity that most of us are very afraid to show. Doing that will take some vulnerability on your part.
- When you know what your “why” is, conversations are just much easier and they will flow better because you’ll have a clearer picture of who you are. When you’re in a space where you are working in service of that “why”, you will feel more grateful for your life.
““If you’re only in it to make buckets of money, at some point you’re going to be obsolete… People don't want to be seen as transactions, they want to be seen as people.”
- Jelaire Grillo
Connect with Jelaire Grillo:
Connect with Steve and Jason:
- Website: Rewire, Inc.: Transformed Thinking
- Email: grow@rewireinc.com
Listen to the podcast here:
Jelaire Grillo- The Human Connection
Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of The Insight interviews. This is your host, Steve Scanlon, and today I've got a fairly cool person, I should say, awfully cool person on what I call the right coast, because I live on the left coast. But I've got a really cool guest. Jelaire Grillo, say hi to our listeners.
Hello, thanks for having me. I'm excited.
Yeah, I am, too. I get excited about these. And, you know, I don't even know how they're gonna go. Right? They all sort of unfold in front of me, because, like you can attest for the fact that you don't know what the heck's gonna happen for the next 30 minutes, right?
No clue. And I think that's what makes it great, right?
We're gonna find out, right? Maybe we'll get done with one of them go, well, we should’ve really planned for that. But it is organic, and we think the Insight interviews are very much geared towards that. So, Jelaire Grillo, wow, very excited to have you on the call. And I'm really excited to hear about your journey in life and your journey in business and some of the things that you've done, and we found you and I'm just excited to hear your take, I think it's a really unique thing and how you do what you do and where you came from. So, we'll get into all of that, but right out of the gate, the first thing I'm going to ask you is today, I just want to know what you're grateful for?
Wow, what am I grateful for? I think that's pretty easy. And I think some people would think it's kind of cliché, but honestly, I'm just grateful for my life. Like, I really do feel blessed and lucky that I get to do so many great things and meet so many great people. I have a beautiful family and a wonderful six-year-old who keeps me on my toes all of the time, and I get to pursue the things I love and I'm encouraged by those who love me to do those things. And honestly, I can't ask for anything else. So, you know, that's probably it in a nutshell.
Wow, you so you can't ask for anything else. That's a lot. I mean, that's, that's a lot. That's a lot to be grateful for.
Yeah, it’s great.
It sounds really wonderful. Well, listen, people will see our show notes, and maybe they get on ahead of time and read some different things, and we'll get a bio on you out there on the show notes, and so inevitably, people can read that, but it's always nice to just dive in with people and instead of me reading off, you know, your bio or your CV, I think it's nice to kind of hear that from you. Where are you from? Tell us the journey, the Jelaire journey, if you don't mind, and you can synthesize it. You don't have to take the entire time but tell us a little bit about where you came from and what you're doing.
Yeah, so you know, I hail from Miami, Florida. I currently live in Virginia. So, the weather is definitely a little different. I miss my heat, but I’m from Miami went through the University of Florida, graduated with a poli sci degree, went to DC worked on the Hill, absolutely hated it and I found myself in nonprofits, and then I opened a business and that business grounded me to Virginia. And when that nonprofit moved, I needed a nine to five job and I found myself in mortgage, and I believe that was in 2012, and I've been in mortgage ever since in some capacity. I started as a loan officer assistant moved my way into marketing, and now I have the pleasure of being the brand ambassador for Prosperity, Home Mortgage, which I absolutely love. And on the side, I have a business where I help real estate agents with their brands digitally. So, their digital brands and I have fun with that. It lets my creative side loose. And that's the resume. Kind of short and sweet.
Oh man. See, I this is why I don't come with 1000 questions. Alright, can I go backwards a little bit because-
Sure.
I can't wait to talk to you about being a brand ambassador, because I know there are listeners today at any given point, how we market ourselves how we brand ourselves, the creativity that we bring to the table , and we get to hear from an expert in that and someone who's obviously very creative, so I can't wait to ask you about that. Before we do, you made this passing comment about work on the Hill -we all know that's Capitol Hill. That's the reference there in DC and you hated it. Is it okay to ask why you hated that? Or is that like off limits? I don't know.
No, yeah, you can ask. I went to school and did my undergrad and poli sci, I minored in Arabic, I was going to go study international law, and I thought at the last second, you know what? I've done a lot of school, so I'm going to take a break. And so, I found myself on the Hill, and I was like, ah, this is going to be so exciting. I'm going to be like, in all these briefings, and it's going to be great, and I ended up working for a lobbying firm, and it was just awful. Like, it's not exciting at all. There are people who maybe get a kick out of it, but I did not, you know? I would sit in these briefings, and I just wasn't excited at all to be there. I thought, you know, I would want to make a difference or do something, you know, impactful, and I didn't really find myself going down any of those routes, and honestly, between all of us, I don't know if you've ever been on the Hill and sat in a briefing, but to get into a briefing, like, think TSA times 100. And when you're a woman, and you're going through all that security, it is a really big pain in the butt. So, you know, I always make fun when people ask like, I'm like, have you ever been through security? Because it's awful. That's enough right there to make you not want to go back. I wasn't excited about it, and there was no passion behind it, and so I moved on to something else.
You'll see the Insight interviews is, I hope kind of cool, because sometimes we're trying to draw out insights that aren't even, you know, again, maybe somebody has an insight. Okay, check. Don't go work on the Hill, right? I don't know. But what I'm hearing in that is, I love the word passion. Like, you figured out that you don't actually care to change the world on the Hill, so you're gonna go try to change the world and have a greater purpose where you're passionate, right?
Yeah, which is how I ended up working in nonprofits for about six years.
Wow, that's great. Tell us about that aspect of it. What were you doing? And it sounds like you're still doing it, right?
Not really. I mean, I listen, I'm heavily involved in a lot of organizations that I love to work volunteer with, but not really too much to that extent that I was when I worked in nonprofits. I started at United Way and eventually moved into mentor, the national mentoring partnership, which is really where I spent most of my time. It's a really fantastic organization that partners, you know, kids with mentors in various fields, and it's just, it was a lot of fun. But, you know, they moved their headquarters to Boston, and if we rewind back to the beginning of this conversation, I said, Virginia is about probably as cold as I'm gonna get. So, when they moved to Boston, I was like, okay, I need to find something else. I can't go with you. But I also had opened a business, so, my roots were already kind of stuck in Virginia. But yeah, so that's where I was. And you know, I've always really been passionate about making a difference, making an impact, helping people and I just found myself right at home in those spaces. So, yep.
Yeah, when you made that comment about Miami, you miss your heat, to be completely honest I wasn't sure if you're referring to basketball or the climate.
Definitely the climate, not basketball.
Ok, I just wanted to be clear about that, because you might miss The Heat, I don’t know. Anyway, I wasn’t sure. It gets kind of hot in Virginia, doesn’t it?
It does get hot in Virginia, but not long enough. And it also gets cold. It snows in Virginia. And you know, listen, I love a good snow. One is probably about all I really want to see, and not enough that I have to dig my car out. So, you know, I would rather be hot. I'm from Miami. I like the heat and not the basketball team.
No, I get it. Got it. What are you most passionate about today? Like, again, you kind of got a side gig where you're helping agents and doing digital branding and stuff, but you're also on the marketing side of your organization. So, talk to me about passion. What are you passionate about today?
People. Honestly, people and relationships. You know, one of the things I love the most about my job is I get to spend a lot of time out on the road, meeting so many different people having so many different conversations, you know, and that right there and of itself is probably what I'm the most passionate about, because I learn so much from these conversations from these experiences, that I can then take back to, you know, enhance my job or, you know, help our loan officers do better in their jobs. And I there are no words for how much I love it. So, what am I passionate about? People and relationships. I love it.
You know, I loved what I loved what you said there about bringing that back. I've encountered some people out there that go out and they meet a wide variety of people, and for some, you know, that's not welcome. That's like, oh, they're trying to find their clicky little group, and almost sounds like to me like you're out there looking for the diversity and finding different opinions and thoughts. Is that fair to say?
Oh, yeah, yes, for sure. In all different fields, you know? Just because really, honestly, no matter who I'm talking to, I can always pick up on something, learn something from it and apply it to what I'm doing every day, whether that's in my job, or in my personal life, or with my side business. So yeah, I'm always open to a good conversation and meeting some great people.
What if you get in conversations, and you notice that whatever is being conversed, talked about whatever, you really disagree with that? Are you still able to listen in a way where you're like, I'm still gonna get something out of this?
"I think you can get something out of any conversation, even if it's something that you don't necessarily agree with. I also think that there's always a way to have those conversations, I think every now and then you probably run across people who maybe aren't interested in exploring other options. But what I get to do every day with our loan officers, that prosperity, you know, I think sets me up for those types of conversations, right? You know, because part of branding, part of being a brand ambassador, it's a two fold job, you know? One is that outward facing part of my job, where I'm out in the field or out at conferences, and I'm meeting all these people and networking, but the other part is internal, working with these loan officers to get them to step outside of their comfort zones, to build up their brands. And those can be difficult conversations to have. People don't always agree with you, you know, people are set in their ways people are scared to try something different. And so, you know, having those conversations every single day sets me up for having better conversations when I'm out on the road, or vice versa. So, I think you can take something from any conversation, whether it's a positive and negative or one maybe where you don't see eye to eye."
Gosh, in business, you know, I'm a business owner, myself, and my partner, and we've been talking about, and we rework brand, all the time, right? Because I suppose we're all out in the world here, trying to be unique in terms of what we do. And so, I'd love it if you just, without being direct, because I know you help your company in a very, very specific way, but talk to us about just how do you help people, especially like in mortgage, right? How do you help them be unique? What are some of the techniques, the tactics? What are some of the questions? How do you draw out uniqueness and others?
So, I mean, listen, I think at the end of the day, uniqueness is just them. It's who they are. You could have 10 loan officers in the room, and they're all going to be different, and they're going to do their business differently, they're going to talk to people differently, they're going to build a nurture their relationships differently. It's really about getting to know who those people are, and then trying to pull out those authentic pieces of them. When you can pull out those authentic pieces, you can use them to build a brand, but I think the problem with that is people are, you know, they're afraid. They're afraid of being authentic, afraid of being a little vulnerable, and so that's where you start to have to get creative, right? And so, you know, we do some an exercise here at PMH where we map the process, and it's actually shocking how many people don't map their process from start to finish. But we're not mapping the milestone so to speak, we're mapping the conversations. What are the conversations that you're having with people? How are you having the conversations? Who are those people? And then it's trying to find ways to humanize those connections a little bit more using technology, you know, and so, it's really just how can you pull out that authentic person, because that authentic person is their brand and I think people overthink their brands too much. It's not color palettes and logos and things. I mean, those contribute to it, but that's not the foundation. The foundation of the brand is the person, but people struggle with that that's hard for people.-3.png?width=340&height=260&name=Untitled%20design%20(6)-3.png)
You and I probably do a similar thing here because obviously I run a coaching company, but I love this idea of asking because this is my insight, not necessarily how do I want to show up in the world as a brand, you know, with colors and brand bibles and all of that stuff, which is fine, but rather who am I? You know, again, this idea of vulnerability and transparency and what people struggling with that, how do you help people with that? How do you personally do it? Because it sounds like you've come across that a lot.
Yeah, so you kind of have to start on that person's level. And so, I coached sports for, I don't know, 20 years, all levels, ages three through to college, right? I've coached every level. And one of the things I learned as a coach was, I can't coach all my kids the same, right? Each one of them are different, and each of them are going to respond to something different, and if I'm going to do my job, well, I need to get to know who those people are, in order to help them put their best foot forward. And it's the same thing with branding, right? So, if I'm going to work alongside loan officers, and help pull out that vulnerability, that authentic self and bring it to the table so that their brand can be stronger, I have to get to know who they are, right? Where are they comfortable? Where are they not comfortable? And you have to find solutions to some of the things that they're struggling at. When you can start to figure out who people are and play to that or start to solve some of the things that they're struggling with the most, their eyes start to open up a little bit more, the door opens a little bit more. And so, you're able to kind of nudge your way in. And so, people who were very closed off to an idea at the beginning, are a little bit more open to it, the more you work with them. And I think that we sometimes are seeing people as a group, as a whole and coaching towards that, which is fine on some level, but if you're really trying to pull something wonderful, and I consider magical, out of somebody, you've got to get to know them on a more personal level, and then meet them where they're at.
That's just so cool. I'm really trying to frame this question in my head. If I ask this imperfectly, you'll give me grace, right?
100%. I love imperfect.
What percentage of people that you run into, again, let's just talk about the business that you're in that you're trying to help with brand and all that stuff, and you're trying to draw out who they are, what percentage of the people do you get the impression of, oh, you don't really know who you are? And you're actually helping them uncover that?
I would say most people don't. I don't know. Well, and so it's interesting, because I have a life coach, I also have a business coach, and I work a lot with both of them, and when I started my side business, my coach was like, okay, well, what's your why? And I was like my why? And she goes, well, you have to have a why, and I was like, okay, well, let me think about it for a little bit, right? And so, you know, many years ago when I started it, I think I was in the same boat, but I think most people don't start with their why. And I think that's also very likely with loan officers, and I think the reason for that is they come in with the company's why, right? So, they come in as a PHM loan officer, and you know PHM’s mission, and that mission is great, and we want to abide by that mission and follow that mission through. We hope that you believe in it just like we do. But there's kind of like a sub mission to that, you know? It's yours, right? People are doing business with you; you're helping people make the biggest financial decision of their life, and therefore, you should know your why, and I think a lot of people don't know their why. But it's interesting when we do that exercise where we map the process, and we talk about the conversations that we're having with people, and how we nurture those relationships, it becomes fairly clear what the why is, but it's getting people to sit down and do that with me, you know, getting them to take that step forward. But I would say that most people, when they first start out, probably don't know what their why is.
All right, thank you for that. I think that's great. I love the idea of the sub mission.
Yeah.
Because, you know, a submission, that can actually have a bunch of meanings, right?
Yeah. It could.
Like in, you know, in the way of, like, underwriting, we submit a file submission could be like, you know, in the way of like cage fighting. In this case, submission, right, which is yours and who you are. I've never really done this in the Inside Interviews, and again, I don't mean to put you on the spot. Can we roleplay?
Sure.
I just made this up just now. But like, I want to be a loan officer and you be you, and you give me this whole why thing and I'm listening to it, whatever, and I think about it for like a day, and so now, again, we don't have to roleplay, like I'm not going to create a different voice or anything like that, but what . if I came back and said, okay, I figured out my life already.
Yeah.
I want to just make piles of money.
So, my immediate response to that aside from an inward eye roll is -
Wait a minute. Inward eyeroll. I got to take notes here.
That's the first thing that usually happens.
"People don't want to be seen as transactions. Like this is not the case. So, if you're in it just to make buckets of money, like just that's it right there. At some point, you become obsolete, right? Because at some point, you're going to come across 10 clients that don't want to be treated like transactions. They want to be treated like people. And it just doesn't work that way, right? So, when somebody comes to me, and they say something like that, it takes a lot for me to calm myself down, because I opened a cheerleading gym in 2012, and that is a very lucrative business. I did not open it to make buckets of money, I opened it because I had something like that when I was younger, and it was a second home. And a lot of people in this in that business treat people like transactions, they see a dollar sign, and I didn't want to do that. I wanted to open up a different space. I think that there's probably a place for that type of business somewhere in this industry, but if you're a loan officer here at PHM, we're going to turn around and we're going to tell you no. Like that can't be your why."
The answer is just no, and I'm not a sugarcoating kind of person, Steve. So, like, I usually am pretty, pretty blunt with people. And I tur to them, and I say, okay, so let's roleplay. Let's turn it the other way around. I'm your client, right? And I asked you, why? Why did you get into this? Why do you do this? Why do you help people make the biggest financial decision of their life?
Because when you lock and close a loan, it goes ca-ching for me.
Right. That person's not going to say that though. They're not going to say that to their client, because that's not going to get them their next loan, because people don't want to be seen as transactions, they want to be seen as people. So, you know, that's a tough one. It's a hard one to do, but I think there's ways to walk through it, right? Like, I can roll reverse the conversation back to you. I could turn it back around and say, okay, but what about your business partners? The real estate agents that you're doing business with, they're trusting their clients to you, they're pushing their leads to you, when you sit down and you have conversations with them, are you like, listen, I'm just taking your lead, because at the end of the day, like, I'm just gonna get paid? And that's all that matters to me is I'm just in it for the money? But on the flip side to that, there's also this conversation. We're all working for money, right? Like, we're all doing it. But hopefully, we're working for money doing something we love to do. And it doesn't sound like you love to do what you're doing, if you're just in it for the money, especially when this business is built off relationships. So, it's a hard one to tackle because to me, it doesn't make any sense.
Hence the eye or eye roll, right?
Hence the eye roll, it doesn't make any sense to me. There's more to this business than just the transaction at the end. Listen, I was in LOA for eight years, and I was on way to be a loan officer. You have to truly like working with people to do this job. So, to turn around and just say I want the money. , it doesn't make any sense at all. But you just walk through it, you work through that conversation with people, and there are ways you can crack that a little bit and find the more human aspect of it, no matter what.
But unless people actually search for their why, unless they have a Jelaire in their life, or a person in their life that's even asking them that, I just wonder if no one ever asks that, I mean, yeah, I'm sure some people can intuit that over time, but I wonder when it's not asked, do money and finances become the default “why”? Because it's the only reason people think they work. And that's why I think the question is so brilliant. Because I think I don't think a lot of people even ask that question.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think most people don't. And I think most people, it takes them a little bit of time to figure out what their why is. Immediately your brain starts to go to my family. My family is my why, that's why I do this, and there's nothing wrong with that. That why is totally fine. But you know, I worked with a loan officer once and his wife was when he bought his first home, and how awful the experience was, and how challenging it was, and there was a true story behind there, and it kind of led him into where he is right now as a loan officer and why he helps people. He doesn't want to put anybody through that same situation again, he knows it can be done better, right? So sometimes it's experiences. Sometimes it's life, family, providing for your family, but if you're in the business of building relationships, it's always going to be a little bit more than just bringing home a paycheck. It has to be because you're talking to people all the time, so, you've got to love it a little bit.
There’s a TED talk that I you may have seen; I suspect you may have seen it, that were given by a guy named Simon Sinek.
Yep.
And I cheated just now I went quickly to TED and I looked at how many people have seen that TED Talk as you were talking about this. And so, I have some hope, because TED will just show you that number right there. And so just so you know, 59,000,009 39 141, almost 60 million people have watched that TED Talk. Almost 60 million people. And so, I have hope, because, you know, you and I don't get to be Simon Sinek, he had lightning in a bottle, he does the TED Talk to put this guy on a map, and he's a really smart guy, and et cetera. What I love about what you're saying is you live it. Like it was a lived experience for you whether we ever get to do a TED talk like that, but listener, if you really want to get a really cool dose of what Jelaire is saying, one you can re-listen to this podcast because I thought you articulated it so well, but in case you want to see what 60 million other people watch, watch Simon’s TED talk on knowing your why, right?-2.png?width=340&height=260&name=Untitled%20design%20(7)-2.png)
That's a great book, too.
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Good read.
There you go. All right. Well, look, I told you, this was gonna go super-fast. So, look, I could ask you about why a lot, and we could go in a lot of directions there today. I mean, again, we don't like to timestamp these too much, because we're not exactly sure when they're going to drop or anything like that, but to say we're in some challenging times is fair in this industry, right?
Right.
How in the work that you do with people, and in helping people brand and stuff in this more challenging market, talk to me a little bit about that. What's been meaningful? How have you seen that help, you know, what is your role like in a more challenging market?
So right now, the role is trying to find moments in the process, in the transaction, post transaction, before the transaction, trying to find moments that make a big difference. And so, we're spending a lot of time inside of our technology, looking at the data that we've got, and finding these moments that are going to be super impactful to our clients to our leads, and to our real estate partners, right? And so, we're identifying things as easy as birthdays, as complicated as alerts for when credit is being pulled or things along those lines, but the whole point of this is to help our loan officers drive more conversations with the databases that they currently have right now. And what we're doing is we're working with a variety of different partners, to help our loan officers put their own spin on those types of conversations, and that's where that branding comes into play, right? Because again, branding is very layered. Branding is also how we talk to people. Branding is how we build relationships. And so, our job right now, myself and my team, is to find these moments, identify these moments, put these moments in front of these loan officers and say, listen, here are these moments where you could make an impact on this relationship. Here's some scripting. Here's some bullet points, here's some things you could talk about. Now, I want you to pick up the phone. Now I want you to send a video. Now I want you to do X, Y, and Z to help push that relationship to the next level. So where can we identify those moments? How can we raise the bar a little bit for our loan officers? And how can we take their branding, how they talk to those people, and influence it a little bit more. Just kind of speed that along? Push them forward?
I like to make this connection. I'm just curious as you engage with your people to have, I'm just saying it back to you, so I want to make sure I get it right.
Yep.
Not to have standardized scripted messages, but rather do a more authentic job of sounding like them.
Correct. Yep.
Within these points, where these are high contact, high impact points.
Yep.
Again, back to why, I'm sort of curious. I wonder, have you seen it make a difference for people who are really clear on why? I mean, this kind of a hypothetical question, Jelaire, so forgive me, but isn't that conversation easier when you're walking around knowing your why?
100%? Yes. I actually think any conversation you're having, whether it's in business or in your personal life, is always going to be easier when you know what your why is, what you're passionate about, what you're grateful for. All of those things. Conversations are just easier. They flow better, right? When you have a clearer picture of who you are. But 100%? Yes. I work with, we've got about 500 loan officers and I work with a great bunch, right? And I've worked with a few that really know who they are really know why they do, what they do, what they're passionate about, what they bring to the table, and as we start to highlight these moments, these high impact moments, you can see the return coming back to them, right? And it's not just the return from a dollar sign standpoint of view, it's the return from a, hey, I have a friend who is interested in X, Y and Z, or this was really great to you reaching out to me like this, it really meant a lot. Because people, again, just want to be seen as people, they want to have conversations with people, and by finding and identifying these moments, we can lay off the automation a little bit and bring the human connection forward. And I think that human connection at the end of the day is the most important part of our business.
Jelaire Grillo, thank you so very much. I told you, it's gonna go fast. I have so many more questions about this, but I hope that we had some really, really cool insights here. And I say we, but I know I did. And I just think the listeners, especially with the season that we're in, this is so critical. And I think what you bring to the table, the other thing that comes off in the way that you just sound, what I really liked about interviewing you is you have a whole aura about you. Just the way you talk, the way your tone is, like, I think you walk your talk. I don't get the impression like you're wondering about your own why, and I think that's really beautiful. I think you really get it with regard to people.
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I've worked hard on my why.
Well, guess what? It continues to evolve, right?
Yeah. Always.
Yeah. That's wonderful. Well, listen, thank you so very much. Thank you for all of these wonderful insights. Again, that's the cool thing about podcasts is people can go back and even hear about what it might mean to, for example, have a sub mission to the company's mission. To get beyond just these superficial things and go deeper, but I think you're drawing all that out has just been fantastic. So, thank you so much.
Thank you for having me. I had a blast.
All right. Me too. Well, thanks so much. And again, everybody, we're happy to have you on the inside interviews and it doesn't matter what Jelaires insights are, it doesn't matter what my insights are, it really matters what yours are. So, what insights did you have today? We'll see you next time here on the inside interviews.
---
Thanks for reading. If you got any value at all from this episode, a little nugget all the way up to some big huge insight, please do us a solid by subscribing, recommending, rating, and reviewing us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or Google. That stuff matters to us, and it allows us to continue interviewing more awesome people.
Important Links
- Apple Podcast – The Insight Interviews
- Spotify – The Insight Interviews
- Google – The Insight Interviews
- LinkedIn: Jason or Steve
- Grow@RewireInc.com
